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-   -   Free throw good, foul on teammate during flight (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99057-free-throw-good-foul-teammate-during-flight.html)

RefLarry Wed Jan 14, 2015 07:44pm

Free throw good, foul on teammate during flight
 
Both teams are in the bonus. A1 releases the ball on the front end of free throw from a common foul. While the ball is in flight A2 fouls B1. The ball goes in the basket.
Count the free throw. Clear the lane for A1 to shoot bonus free throw? Go to the other end for B1 to shoot one and one.

Does that sound correct?

frezer11 Wed Jan 14, 2015 07:51pm

Correct

HokiePaul Wed Jan 14, 2015 09:06pm

If the foul was on B1 fouling A2, would you clear the lane for A1's 2nd shot, then let the players back on the line for A2's shots. Or do the players remain on the line for A1's last shot and then for A2's.

If it happened to me, I would probably clear the lane, but as I'm thinking about it, I realized that would just be a guess.

just another ref Wed Jan 14, 2015 09:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 950382)
If the foul was on B1 fouling A2, would you clear the lane for A1's 2nd shot, then let the players back on the line for A2's shots. Or do the players remain on the line for A1's last shot and then for A2's.

If it happened to me, I would probably clear the lane, but as I'm thinking about it, I realized that would just be a guess.

You're right.

crosscountry55 Wed Jan 14, 2015 09:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 950383)
You're right.

Clear lane for any single or multiple throw in which the ball will become dead when the final free throw ends.

The FTs for A2 are considered a separate single or multiple throw (depending on the bonus). If this was your intuition, it's why it was correct.

La Rikardo Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:42pm

This is a false double foul situation, as there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started following the first. Penalties are administered in the order the fouls occur and the ball is put in play according to the penalty for the second foul.

crosscountry55 Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by La Rikardo (Post 950402)
This is a false double foul situation, as there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started following the first. Penalties are administered in the order the fouls occur and the ball is put in play according to the penalty for the second foul.

Yes. Or in HokiePaul's case, a false multiple foul. Same end result in terms of putting the ball in play according to the penalty for the second foul (because in NFHS, all penalties are administered in the order in which they occur).

bas2456 Sat Nov 26, 2016 03:49pm

The same situation as the OP came up in my game today. Looks like we got it wrong as we counted the first FT but did not allow the second FT of the initial sequence.

Can anyone find and/or quote a case play? I can't seem to find one in the current book.

deecee Sat Nov 26, 2016 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 993589)
The same situation as the OP came up in my game today. Looks like we got it wrong as we counted the first FT but did not allow the second FT of the initial sequence.

Can anyone find and/or quote a case play? I can't seem to find one in the current book.

You don't need a case play. What scenario allows you to rescind a legally awarded FT? (it's rhetorical, the answer is none).

bas2456 Sat Nov 26, 2016 07:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 993593)
You don't need a case play. What scenario allows you to rescind a legally awarded FT? (it's rhetorical, the answer is none).



Thank you. My question stands though.


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Altor Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:14am

It's not a case play, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rule 10 Penalties Summary
7. In case of a false double foul or a false multiple foul, each foul carries its own penalty.

As deecee said, nothing tells you to cancel or rescind the penalty in this situation.

BigCat Sun Nov 27, 2016 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 993595)
Thank you. My question stands though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

5.6.2h is similar but not same. A is winning 61 to 60 and B fouls A1 in ACT of shooting as time expires. A coach runs/screams at referees. T called.

A will now shoot 2 FTs for the shooting foul by B1. (they aren't taken away by the idiot coach foul). The play is in the book to show game isnt over etc til officials leave floor. If coach A doesnt act like idiot we report the foul and leave. Dont shoot the FTs. It does answer your question a bit...you dont cancel any FTs because that team commits a foul. Finish penalizing the first and then move to the next one.

deecee Sun Nov 27, 2016 06:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 993595)
Thank you. My question stands though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're not going to find one. What do you do after the first of 2 FT's the coach for the team shooting the FT's comments that your officiating skill is similar to bovine excrement? Just because it was a player committing a foul doesn't change that we adjudicate in the order things happen to completion.

In reality (I am guessing this was either a lower level game or a girls game) because I know the ball is live during the FT but this just doesn't happen. In reality the first time this contact happens it's ignored unless it's an intentional or flagrant, and the kid would be told to cut that crap off. This is also all prevented when the lead is assertive in his FT mechanics.

bas2456 Sun Nov 27, 2016 06:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 993626)
In reality (I am guessing this was either a lower level game or a girls game) because I know the ball is live during the FT but this just doesn't happen. In reality the first time this contact happens it's ignored unless it's an intentional or flagrant, and the kid would be told to cut that crap off. This is also all prevented when the lead is assertive in his FT mechanics.

Shouldn't matter what level of ball it was. The fact is that a foul happened while the ball is in flight. A2 displaced B1 to create a clear advantage for a potential rebound. Not something I think can be ignored.

The lead (me, in this situation) can say "Go in straight up" or whatever I damn well please until I'm blue in the face...we all know that they don't always listen to what we say.

deecee Sun Nov 27, 2016 08:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 993628)
Shouldn't matter what level of ball it was.

You can think this all you like it doesn't make it true. Neither does calling a displacement foul on the first of 2 FT's. It better have been pretty egregious to make this call IMO. I would have had a chat with the player in the second lane space and if it happened again then I would make the call. But no way in hell, unless intentional or flagrant am I calling this on the FIRST of 2 FT's.

The only thing it will illustrate is how well you know the rules (or don't) when you adjudicate all the action after you call the foul. I will also mention that as much as we are being asked to call the displacement of players in the lane on a FT the expectation is usually on a miss, or that the displacement is of the egregious type. The last thing everyone/anyone (coaches, assignors and partners) wants is a bunch of displacement fouls on made baskets.


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