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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:14am
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Is this play specifically spelled out in the case book? I don't have my stuff with me.

A1 getting ready to attempt first shot of a 1 and 1. After he has received the ball from the official (therefore establishing team control for a brief time), and before he releases the ball on the free throw attempt, A2, located either on the free throw lane or outside the arc, commits a foul.

Does A1 get to attempt his free throw with the lane cleared or does the free throw attempt get nullified, which would be the case if A2 had violated instead of committed a foul?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:34am
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Casebook play 6.7SitB when you get your books, Biggie.

If the ball hasn't left the free-throw shooter's hands when his teammate committed the foul, the ball would be dead immediately because of the A team control foul. A1 would then get his original 1/1 with no one on the lanes. If either of A1's first or second FT's was no good, team B would get a spot throw-in at the closest spot to where A2 committed his foul. If A1 makes both ends of the 1/1 though, then team B would get an end-line non- designated spot throw-in.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:44am
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If B was in the bonus, would they then go to the other end to shoot?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
If B was in the bonus, would they then go to the other end to shoot?
Was it a TC foul?

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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 11:53am
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Good question. Is it team control during a free throw attempt?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
Good question. Is it team control during a free throw attempt?
Yes, player is holding a live ball inbounds.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 12:03pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater
Good question. Is it team control during a free throw attempt?
Did the free-throw shooter have player, and thus team control, at the time when the foul was called? Iow, was the FT shooter holding a live ball when the foul occurred?

That tells you what the call is.

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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 02:04pm
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Under Biggie's fact pattern, it sounds like it would be a team control foul, so no shots.

A1 has ball at his disposal for the free throw (therefore it is live, s/he has player control and thus there is team control) and has not release the ball (team control has not yet ended). A2 fouls during this period of team control.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 02:56pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by cdaref
A1 has ball at his disposal for the free throw (therefore it is live, s/he has player control and thus there is team control)
Ball at disposal = Player control?

Care to restate, cda?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 02:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob J
Was it a TC foul?
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Pork
Did the free-throw shooter have player, and thus team control, at the time when the foul was called? Iow, was the FT shooter holding a live ball when the foul occurred?
Quote:
Originally posted by me
Ball at disposal = Player control?
Lotta Socratic crap floating around this thread. Can't anybody just give a straight answer?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 03:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/b]
Can't anybody just give a straight answer? [/B][/QUOTE]Shut up.

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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 03:28pm
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Wasn't it "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" that had the one skit where everything said had to be a question?

So, has anyone answered yet? Wasn't it established the free throw shooter had the ball and had not yet shot? So, doesn't that determine team control? Since there is team control, wouldn't that mean B does not shoot free throws, and will be getting the ball OOB? Since B is getting the ball OOB, wouldn't we clear the lane for A's free throw(s), since the foul does not wipe out A's free throw(s)?

Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 03:34pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Wasn't it "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" that had the one skit where everything said had to be a question?

So, has anyone answered yet? Wasn't it established the free throw shooter had the ball and had not yet shot? So, doesn't that determine team control? Since there is team control, wouldn't that mean B does not shoot free throws, and will be getting the ball OOB? Since B is getting the ball OOB, wouldn't we clear the lane for A's free throw(s), since the foul does not wipe out A's free throw(s)?

Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
Do you know the way to San Jose?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 03:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Wasn't it "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" that had the one skit where everything said had to be a question?

So, has anyone answered yet? Wasn't it established the free throw shooter had the ball and had not yet shot? So, doesn't that determine team control? Since there is team control, wouldn't that mean B does not shoot free throws, and will be getting the ball OOB? Since B is getting the ball OOB, wouldn't we clear the lane for A's free throw(s), since the foul does not wipe out A's free throw(s)?

Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
Do you know the way to San Jose?
Was there anywhere else you wanted me to go?
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2006, 04:00pm
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You are right, Chuck. Just being at the player's disposal isnt enough for team control. I jumped past several key steps. Careful what you ask for...

For team control, there must be player control. 4-12-2.

For player control, the player has to be "holding" a "live ball" "inbounds". 4-12-1.

Here, the player is holding the ball.

The ball is live because it is at his/her disposal, and it is at his disposal when handed to him/her. 6-1-2(c), 4-5-7(a).

S/he is also standing at the free throw line, which is in bounds.

All elements of player control are present, thus there is also team control.

Team control ends when (a) the ball is in flight for a try or tap for goal (and a FT is a try for a goal, 4-20-1), (b) an opponent secures control, or (c) the ball becomes dead. 4-12-3.

Since the ball is not in flight, no opponent has secured control and nothing else has caused the ball to become dead, team control is still in effect under our fact pattern.

Sorry I skipped over those key steps. Certainly you are right that the ball being live/at disposal by itself doesnt always create team control and it was sloppy of me to suggest that.

In this case, however, since being live means being at his disposal and being at his disposal means being handed to him, being handed to him means he is holding it--and by the facts is in bounds at the freethrow line, it seemed justified for me to say (in this case) disposal = team control.

How was that for a long and annoying analysis.
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