Replacement FT for buzzer sounding?

[La Rikardo]

Was doing a girls freshman game today. White led 41-40 with around five seconds left and was at the line shooting two. As she puts up the first free throw, table sounds the horn to inform me that the girl who'd committed the foul had five. The free throw missed. White's coach wanted a replacement free throw. I told her no because the only way we can give a replacement free throw is if B violates. We got the DQ'd girl out of the game and shot the second free throw, which was good. Blue missed a three at the buzzer and White won.

I don't believe there's anything in the rules that give the officials discretion to award a replacement FT for anything other than a violation by B. Am I wrong?

[JRutledge]

It is a judgement call if you feel the FTs were affected by the buzzer. Otherwise you play on. Hard to tell if that is the case here. I guess the question I would ask, which was the home team? If the home team was at the line I would be more inclined to let it go. If the visiting team did this I would be more likely to give a substitute. It also would matter about the timing of the buzzer as well. But ultimately the casebook used to say it was at the discretion of the officials to decide if you stop play for this.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the home team was at the line I would be more inclined to let it go. If the visiting team did this I would be more likely to give a substitute.

How do you possibly justify this?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How do you possibly justify this?

Easy. I have had home teams conveniently blow the horn when the other team has the ball or when they are in action. I know it has happen on purpose a couple of times. That is why I said it would depend on a lot of things. But if the home team did it to themselves, then that is all you have to say to the coach. "You hired them."

The thing is there is no right or wrong answer because if this is not in the rulebook then the Referee can make any decision they want to because it is not directly in the rulebook. I am pretty sure there used to be a casebook play giving some guidance, but I could not find anything in the current books.

Peace

[Terrapins Fan]

I agree with Rut.

Did the table do it to distract the shooter?

That's how I justify it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Did the table do it to distract the shooter?

I don't know, did they? We are not equipped to make that judgment.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't know, did they? We are not equipped to make that judgment.

This is why you get paid the big bucks, to make decisions that no one else can.

Peace

[just another ref]

If this is a single incident, which hopefully it is, it would be totally unfair to assume it was intentionally done. Whatever you would do for one team in this case must be done for the other.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If this is a single incident, which hopefully it is, it would be totally unfair to assume it was intentionally done. Whatever you would do for one team in this case must be done for the other.

It is not a matter of if it is intentionally done IMO. I think the issue that it was done and you will have to decide if something should be done about it.

This happened in the Big East Tournament a few years ago where that controversial ending took place with clock and all 3 officials basically not working the rest of the tournament.

St. John's was playing Rutgers in Madison Square Garden in an early round game. Well a St. John's player was at the FT line with about 6 seconds on the clock to go in the game. Well the horn was blown during the routine of the FT shooter. About 3 players on the FT lane turned away and reacted to horn being blown. Fortunately the FT shooter made the FTs but I used this video as an example to show what you might do or if this was a time to stop the game and redo or let it play out.

I am sure I can find it on YouTube were I pulled the video from.

Horn sounding on FT

Look at about 1:50 on the video and you will see what I am talking about.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Easy. I have had home teams conveniently blow the horn when the other team has the ball or when they are in action. I know it has happen on purpose a couple of times. That is why I said it would depend on a lot of things. But if the home team did it to themselves, then that is all you have to say to the coach. "You hired them."

The thing is there is no right or wrong answer because if this is not in the rulebook then the Referee can make any decision they want to because it is not directly in the rulebook. I am pretty sure there used to be a casebook play giving some guidance, but I could not find anything in the current books.

Peace

We have a couple of coaches around here that I would not put it past to have an agreement with their clock operator to do this at just the right time.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is not a matter of if it is intentionally done IMO. I think the issue that it was done and you will have to decide if something should be done about it.

This happened in the Big East Tournament a few years ago where that controversial ending took place with clock and all 3 officials basically not working the rest of the tournament.

St. John's was playing Rutgers in Madison Square Garden in an early round game. Well a St. John's player was at the FT line with about 6 seconds on the clock to go in the game. Well the horn was blown during the routine of the FT shooter. About 3 players on the FT lane turned away and reacted to horn being blown. Fortunately the FT shooter made the FTs but I used this video as an example to show what you might do or if this was a time to stop the game and redo or let it play out.

I am sure I can find it on YouTube were I pulled the video from.

Horn sounding on FT

Look at about 1:50 on the video and you will see what I am talking about.

Peace

This was that infamous game with Burr and higgins - with the uncalled travel/OOB with time left on the clock at the end of the game...not to mention some controversial calls/no-calls in the last couple minutes.

OT - It's easy to say on paper that we shouldn't award a replacement, or if we do it for one team we do it for the other.l

In the real world, the visiting team in a close game with a shooter at the line who gets "buzzed" in the middle of their FT...just looks bad. I have no problem giving a replacement in the right circumstances.....

Originally Posted by icallfouls

We have a couple of coaches around here that I would not put it past to have an agreement with their clock operator to do this at just the right time.

....and this is why.

BTW - that was absolutely a bloody FOUL at the end of that Rut/SJ game...right Rut?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is not a matter of if it is intentionally done IMO. I think the issue that it was done and you will have to decide if something should be done about it.

So it was not intentionally done. You are more likely to allow an accident to happen to the home team?

This happened in the Big East Tournament a few years ago where that controversial ending took place with clock and all 3 officials basically not working the rest of the tournament.

St. John's was playing Rutgers in Madison Square Garden in an early round game. Well a St. John's player was at the FT line with about 6 seconds on the clock to go in the game. Well the horn was blown during the routine of the FT shooter. About 3 players on the FT lane turned away and reacted to horn being blown. Fortunately the FT shooter made the FTs but I used this video as an example to show what you might do or if this was a time to stop the game and redo or let it play out.

I am sure I can find it on YouTube were I pulled the video from.

Horn sounding on FT

Look at about 1:50 on the video and you will see what I am talking about.

Peace

We're talking about whether or not to award a replacement free throw and this is a video of a made free throw. In this video the ones that were distracted were the players along the lane, so they might have been prevented from getting a rebound. But he made it so it's kind of a moot point, especially with regard to the OP.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I agree with Rut.

Did it distract the shooter?

That's how I justify it.

Fixed it for ya. No Charge!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If this is a single incident, which hopefully it is, it would be totally unfair to assume it was intentionally done. Whatever you would do for one team in this case must be done for the other.

Really? Who says?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

Really? Who says?

Uh, logic, common sense, and fair play? If I'm overlooking something, let's hear it.