"Shooter Changes His Mind" Travel (Video)

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, it is. All carries are "double" dribbles. Some might be travels too. In fact, the actual rule is "illegal dribble", so it is covered under that just fine.

But not all "double dribbles" are "carries". Which is what I was getting at.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

But not all "double dribbles" are "carries". Which is what I was getting at.

Right. So? And there are no "double dribbles" anyway. The call is "illegal dribble". It is just a broad term for a class of infractions. Carry is just a narrow term for one of the infractions in the class of illegal dribbles.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

All carries are "double" dribbles.

No they aren't.

4-15-4b - Dribbling "The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands."

If the ball handler carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one hand and take a few steps (moving the pivot foot) while doing so, and never starts, or ends, a second dribble (no release, no ball bouncing on the floor), before the official signals a carry (the dribbler allowed the ball to come to rest in one hand), then there is absolutely no way that this is an illegal (double) dribble, it's a travel violation (since there is actually no such thing as a real carry violation, by rule).

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Right. So? And there are no "double dribbles" anyway. The call is "illegal dribble". It is just a broad term for a class of infractions. Carry is just a narrow term for one of the infractions in the class of illegal dribbles.

Define a "Palming carry" (add it in Rule 9) or do away with the signal and just make one for an "illegal dribble".

Personally, I like the different signals as they help with communication, and avoid coaches always asking "what did he do" after a call. And while I doubt the lack of a definition for "Palming carry" in Rule 9 would be a problem, I don't see an issue with bringing it up and fixing it (which is not hard to do) before it comes up.

[just another ref]

I have never seen the carry signal associated with a travel. If the player catches the ball and travels with it, it's traveling. Carrying is not a violation. It's pretty much just a pantomime showing what the dribbler did to create an illegal dribble violation. The signal, by the book, is really a little subtle action where the emphasis should be on turning over the palm. This is also basically the same signal as an over and back violation. But some officials turn the carry signal into a giant windmill action involving a full rotation with the arm extended. This serves to fuel the myth that any dribble above what is perceived as a "normal" height must be a violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

... some officials turn the carry signal into a giant windmill action involving a full rotation with the arm extended. This serves to fuel the myth that any dribble above what is perceived as a "normal" height must be a violation.

A-ha. So that's where the myth came from.

From the "List":

Palming, or carrying, is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No they aren't.

4-15-4b - Dribbling "The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands."

If the ball handler carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one hand and take a few steps (moving the pivot foot) while doing so, and never starts, or ends, a second dribble (no release, no ball bouncing on the floor), before the official signals a carry (the dribbler allowed the ball to come to rest in one hand), then there is absolutely no way that this is an illegal (double) dribble, it's a travel violation (since there is actually no such thing as a real carry violation, by rule).

Then that is a travel, not a carry.

[potato]

The palming/carry is simply an action that made the ball come to a rest on the player's hand, it doesn't necessary means it's a violation, so you need to see how the play goes on and what the player does, if the player is palming/carrying while standing still obviously he just ended his dribble & there's no violation, if he lifted his pivot and retouch the ground with the pivot with the ball still on him then it's a travel.

[Raymond]

Of course you all know what play we had in our game tonight.

[potato]

The play we're talking about has nothing to do with carry/palming, so we're pretty much discussing about the technical terms for carry/palming as we type.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Of course you all know what play we had in our game tonight.

No, do tell.

Originally Posted by just another ref

No, do tell.

He had a "Shooter Changes His Mind" Travel play.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

He had a "Shooter Changes His Mind" Travel play.

Yeah, I get that. I was wondering how it played out and what, if anything, was called.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

He had a "Shooter Changes His Mind" Travel play.

Had a passer who wanted to pass to someone who disappeared from him. Wasn't in my primary. Didn't discuss the play with the primary. Other off-official saw play also and agreed with me there is no violation unless re-touched by A1.

Opposing coach wanted a double dribble called.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Had a passer who wanted to pass to someone who disappeared from him. Wasn't in my primary. Didn't discuss the play with the primary. Other off-official saw play also and agreed with me there is no violation unless re-touched by A1.

Opposing coach wanted a double dribble called.

Who recovered the ball?