FSU v Florida tip-in

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Don't we "know" that if the ball is 90% through, and gets batted back out, it's BI? Doesn't that mean that the ball must clear the net before the try counts?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And, in NCAAW, the clock doesn't stop in the last minute until the ball clears the net.

Good points, but it still doesn't address Nevadaref's paradox of "if the ball would have been in the middle of the net when time expired and then gotten stuck there, the goal has to count, but if it continues through without issue, then it is required to have been all the way clear of the net before time expires in order to be a successful goal".

A few other odd plays regarding when the ball goes "into the basket":

After a basket, the net gets caught up on the rim, unnoticed by the officials. After the subsequent inbound, there is a quick turnover, the ball comes back the other way, and a player takes a long, high arcing, jump shot. Maybe due to the caught up net, or maybe for some other reason, the ball enters the top of the rim, dead center, but eventually rattles out. What do we have?

Same play, but the net isn't caught up. No basket. Right?

Once again. C'mon NFHS. Just what does "into the basket" really mean?

[JRutledge]

Are we all in agreement that the try ended on this play?

I am not reading anything in the rule that would treat this any different than if the ball was by a defender. I am very willing to be convinced here, but the rule does not say this try is over in a clear way.

Peace

[Adam]

The try is over once it's clear that it cannot go in. There's a case (NFHS, anyway) that clearly states once a try drops below the rim and hits another player or the floor, the try is over.

[La Rikardo]

I think it's pretty certain that the throw was unsuccessful. Anyway, if the officials decide that the try had not ended here, then hasn't the Florida player committed a goaltending violation?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

I think it's pretty certain that the throw was unsuccessful. Anyway, if the officials decide that the try had not ended here, then hasn't the Florida player committed a goaltending violation?

Only if the shot had a chance to go in.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

The try is over once it's clear that it cannot go in. There's a case (NFHS, anyway) that clearly states once a try drops below the rim and hits another player or the floor, the try is over.

4-41-4 says: "The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball is dead."

I do not see anything that says touching another player.

That being said, what if the basket was not as close to the rim and the ball would not have been called GT, but the ball is touched and goes in the basket in the same fashion as this play? I guess I am trying to think of what it mean by "clearly unsuccessful?"

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

4-41-4 says: "The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball is dead."

I do not see anything that says touching another player.

If it has dropped below the rim it is certain that it is unsuccessful, whether it touches another player or not.

That being said, what if the basket was not as close to the rim and the ball would not have been called GT, but the ball is touched and goes in the basket in the same fashion as this play? I guess I am trying to think of what it mean by "clearly unsuccessful?"

Peace

It would all be part of the same judgment. If the ball has no chance to go in, it can't be goaltending.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

After a basket, the net gets caught up on the rim, unnoticed by the officials. After the subsequent inbound, there is a quick turnover, the ball comes back the other way, and a player takes a long, high arcing, jump shot. Maybe due to the caught up net, or maybe for some other reason, the ball enters the top of the rim, dead center, but eventually rattles out. What do we have?

No basket.

I don't agree with Nevada's paradox. It's not a basket until it passes through or until it becomes caught. If the ball enters the basket, time expires, and the ball *then* becomes caught, no goal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't agree with Nevada's paradox. If the ball enters the basket, time expires, and the ball *then* becomes caught, no goal.

How about ball enters basket, becomes caught, and then, time expires?

Doesn't seem fair to count that goal and not count a goal where the ball enters the basket, top of the ball is 95% past the bottom of the net, at the same time that time expires.

Posts from esteemed members regarding "successful" and "unsuccessful" (above) may solve help this problem, but I have to go to my day job, so I'll deal with it later.