FSU v Florida tip-in

[Nevadaref]

I was hoping that when I saw the video of this game ending play that the ball would have entered the basket AFTER time expired, but it clearly didn't. This was properly called by the officials and too bad for the FL kid.

[La Rikardo]

Hopefully the officials would've properly waved off the goal if it had entered the basket after the buzzer. That would've been a fun opportunity for Florida State fans and the media to learn about the definition of a try.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

Hopefully the officials would've properly waved off the goal if it had entered the basket after the buzzer. That would've been a fun opportunity for Florida State fans and the media to learn about the definition of a try.

Actually, the ball would need to have passed through or remained in the basket for a goal to be scored. If the ball was still in the middle of the net when time expired, no goal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Actually, the ball would need to have passed through or remained in the basket for a goal to be scored. If the ball was still in the middle of the net when time expired, no goal.

Somewhat of a paradox because if the ball would have been in the middle of the net when time expired and then gotten stuck there, the goal has to count, but if it continues through without issue, then it is required to have been all the way clear of the net before time expires in order to be a successful goal.

A curious ruling.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Somewhat of a paradox because if the ball would have been in the middle of the net when time expired and then gotten stuck there, the goal has to count, but if it continues through without issue, then it is required to have been all the way clear of the net before time expires in order to be a successful goal. A curious ruling.

NFHS:

Who says that "it is required to have been all the way clear of the net before time expires in order to be a successful goal"? The rule doesn't say that:

5-1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through.

At first, I thought the same thing as Nevadaref, until I looked up the definition of the word "through":

through (throo) prep. 1. In one side and out the opposite or another side of: went through the tunnel. 2. Among or between; in the midst of: a walk through the flowers.

Using the first definition would certainly lead to Nevadaref's, above cited, curious ruling. But using the second definition would allow an official to count the basket. I've got to believe that the NFHS had the second definition in mind when they wrote the rule.

Also, in Casebook 5.1.1.A, the NFHS counts the hoop using the phrase "into the basket", nothing about a tied up net, or nothing about "all the way clear of the net". In fact, there's nothing about the net. Period. So, what does "into the basket" mean?

1-10-1: Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

So for a basket to count, the ball simply has to be "in the midst of" the ring, or the net. It can't be "in the midst of" the flange, or the braces, since these are objects that would never allow balls to pass through them, but would only allow balls to rest on them. I suppose that the ball could also rest on the ring (in theory, for only a fraction of a second); since the ball is resting on the ring, it isn't "in the midst of" the ring, so it wouldn't count.

With the bottom intact, the laced basketball never would have gone "in one side and out the opposite" side of the peach basket, but it could be "in the midst of" the peach basket. That's why I wear a bracelet that says WWND (What Would Naismith Do) when I officiate.

There's more than one way to skin a cat (apologies to BigCat).

Anybody got a citation to dispute my hypothesis?

Another question to ponder: How far "into the basket", or into "the midst of" the basket, does the ball have to be for it to count? Certainly not in the cylinder above the plane of the ring. How about a millimeter of the ball below the plane of the ring? Half the diameter of the ball below the plane of the ring? All the ball below the plane of the ring?

[griblets]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So for a basket to count, the ball simply has to be "in the midst of" the ring, or the net.

I understand where you are going with this, but by this conclusion, a ball that goes nearly half way in but rattles out (think of a long jump shot) would have to count since the ball was "in the midst of" the ring. That certainly isn't the intent of the rule.

For me, until it is better defined, I'll stick with the first definition of through.