FSU v Florida tip-in

[griblets]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So for a basket to count, the ball simply has to be "in the midst of" the ring, or the net.

I understand where you are going with this, but by this conclusion, a ball that goes nearly half way in but rattles out (think of a long jump shot) would have to count since the ball was "in the midst of" the ring. That certainly isn't the intent of the rule.

For me, until it is better defined, I'll stick with the first definition of through.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by griblets

I understand where you are going with this, but by this conclusion, a ball that goes nearly half way in but rattles out (think of a long jump shot) would have to count since the ball was "in the midst of" the ring. That certainly isn't the intent of the rule.

Great point, something that we need to ponder along with how far "into the basket", or into "the midst of" the basket, does the ball have to be for it to count?

C'mon NFHS. Just what does "into the basket" really mean?

[bwburke94]

Obvious question from a fan:

If the Florida players knew the definition of "try", they would have known that there must be at least 0.1 seconds left on the clock for the basket to count. What would have happened if Florida attempted to inbound the ball while FSU was storming the court?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Obvious question from a fan:

If the Florida players knew the definition of "try", they would have known that there must be at least 0.1 seconds left on the clock for the basket to count. What would have happened if Florida attempted to inbound the ball while FSU was storming the court?

The clock is going to stop and there's going to be a review anyway, so the storming of the court didn't cause a delay. No T.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Great point, something that we need to ponder along with how far "into the basket", or into "the midst of" the basket, does the ball have to be for it to count?

C'mon NFHS. Just what does "into the basket" really mean?

Don't we "know" that if the ball is 90% through, and gets batted back out, it's BI? Doesn't that mean that the ball must clear the net before the try counts?

I think for this discussion, we can ignore the "enters from above" part -- that's just there so the ball entering from below doesn't count. So, its a goal when the ball gets stuck, or passes through (not *is passing* through).

And, in NCAAW (and NY HS girls), the clock doesn't stop in the last minute until the ball celers the net -- so this situation is the same.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Don't we "know" that if the ball is 90% through, and gets batted back out, it's BI? Doesn't that mean that the ball must clear the net before the try counts?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And, in NCAAW, the clock doesn't stop in the last minute until the ball clears the net.

Good points, but it still doesn't address Nevadaref's paradox of "if the ball would have been in the middle of the net when time expired and then gotten stuck there, the goal has to count, but if it continues through without issue, then it is required to have been all the way clear of the net before time expires in order to be a successful goal".

A few other odd plays regarding when the ball goes "into the basket":

After a basket, the net gets caught up on the rim, unnoticed by the officials. After the subsequent inbound, there is a quick turnover, the ball comes back the other way, and a player takes a long, high arcing, jump shot. Maybe due to the caught up net, or maybe for some other reason, the ball enters the top of the rim, dead center, but eventually rattles out. What do we have?

Same play, but the net isn't caught up. No basket. Right?

Once again. C'mon NFHS. Just what does "into the basket" really mean?

[JRutledge]

Are we all in agreement that the try ended on this play?

I am not reading anything in the rule that would treat this any different than if the ball was by a defender. I am very willing to be convinced here, but the rule does not say this try is over in a clear way.

Peace

[Adam]

The try is over once it's clear that it cannot go in. There's a case (NFHS, anyway) that clearly states once a try drops below the rim and hits another player or the floor, the try is over.

[La Rikardo]

I think it's pretty certain that the throw was unsuccessful. Anyway, if the officials decide that the try had not ended here, then hasn't the Florida player committed a goaltending violation?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

The try is over once it's clear that it cannot go in. There's a case (NFHS, anyway) that clearly states once a try drops below the rim and hits another player or the floor, the try is over.

4-41-4 says: "The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball is dead."

I do not see anything that says touching another player.

That being said, what if the basket was not as close to the rim and the ball would not have been called GT, but the ball is touched and goes in the basket in the same fashion as this play? I guess I am trying to think of what it mean by "clearly unsuccessful?"

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

After a basket, the net gets caught up on the rim, unnoticed by the officials. After the subsequent inbound, there is a quick turnover, the ball comes back the other way, and a player takes a long, high arcing, jump shot. Maybe due to the caught up net, or maybe for some other reason, the ball enters the top of the rim, dead center, but eventually rattles out. What do we have?

No basket.

I don't agree with Nevada's paradox. It's not a basket until it passes through or until it becomes caught. If the ball enters the basket, time expires, and the ball *then* becomes caught, no goal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't agree with Nevada's paradox. If the ball enters the basket, time expires, and the ball *then* becomes caught, no goal.

How about ball enters basket, becomes caught, and then, time expires?

Doesn't seem fair to count that goal and not count a goal where the ball enters the basket, top of the ball is 95% past the bottom of the net, at the same time that time expires.

Posts from esteemed members regarding "successful" and "unsuccessful" (above) may solve help this problem, but I have to go to my day job, so I'll deal with it later.