Selling a block/charge no-call

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Falling does not, but flopping does.



RedKillian's words, not mine.

Flopping is also exaggerating the effect of the contact, which I'm not T'ing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Flopping is also exaggerating the effect of the contact, which I'm not T'ing.

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

I've seen it called exactly once, ever. HS varsity boys. Defender screams in agony and falls backwards as the dribbler comes in. Alas for the defender, the referee had a great view (so did I) - of the foot of space between him and the dribbler. I think the rule is there for that -- the extreme situations that are blatantly clear as attempts to decieve the referee.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

I've called it one time. Little kid YMCA ball. Kid fell with no contact, I warned him and his coach, who nodded at me as if he had no clue.
Shortly after, he's playing defense about 25 get from the basket waiting for the dribbler. When the dribbler gets about 5 feet away, he flies back like he was kicked in the cheat by Jackie Chan.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

On really pedantic note a player cannot fake being "fouled", since a foul is a judgement call by the official over ther impact contact has on a play at best a player can fake being contacted severely or situationally where they would expect a foul call.

I've been in a gym once where a T was called on this: a player had bailed out on a couple block charge situations where my partner felt he trying to buy calls, so he got warned. Later in the game the ball carrier was being doubled and started clearing space. Kid goes down again and my partner T's him up. Kid stands up and spits a mouthful of blood on my partner's shoe and gets tossed.

WHere would I call this:

- You would blatantly need to be faking contact that wasn't occuring at all. ie. The old slap yourself on the arm.
- You would need to be trying to get me call something that just isn't going to happen. Ie. In a block chrage situation if a defender chooses to fall back after minimal contact or no contact I'm not likley to warn or T that. I'm not t'ing a kid up for being soft. Now if they are making all sorts of sound effects or rolling around like a pro soccer game that might be different. Or if they start to complain for calls when that goes on and I've told them what to do to get the call.

Realisitcally its going to need to be a pretty extreme case for me T this up.

[biggravy]

1. JV game
2. LGP
3. Contact initiated by dribbler

Those were the key things I took out of OP. Dribbler tried to avoid contact... but he didn't! Too bad! PC. Think about it like this: The defender tried to block the shot but he hit the shooter on the arm. I didn't want to penalize him because he tried not to hit the shooter. It doesn't make sense! Call the PC. Your game will improve. That takes us back to #1. If you want to move up, start making this call. Not penalizing the offense in this case IS penalizing the legal defense.

Just my opinion...

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by biggravy

1. JV game
2. LGP
3. Contact initiated by dribbler

Those were the key things I took out of OP. Dribbler tried to avoid contact... but he didn't! Too bad! PC. Think about it like this: The defender tried to block the shot but he hit the shooter on the arm. I didn't want to penalize him because he tried not to hit the shooter. It doesn't make sense! Call the PC. Your game will improve. That takes us back to #1. If you want to move up, start making this call. Not penalizing the offense in this case IS penalizing the legal defense.

Just my opinion...

And Bingo was his name-o.

Originally Posted by biggravy

1. JV game
2. LGP
3. Contact initiated by dribbler

Those were the key things I took out of OP. Dribbler tried to avoid contact... but he didn't! Too bad! PC. Think about it like this: The defender tried to block the shot but he hit the shooter on the arm. I didn't want to penalize him because he tried not to hit the shooter. It doesn't make sense! Call the PC. Your game will improve. That takes us back to #1. If you want to move up, start making this call. Not penalizing the offense in this case IS penalizing the legal defense.

Just my opinion...

Another great thing to look for is displacement and if the dribbler stops at contact. If the offensive player is able to stay under control and stop at contact it's probably a no-call. If the offensive player ends up on top of the defender on the floor then you have some obvious displacement and need a whistle.

I had a weird block/charge today where the dribbler faked right and went left. The defender maintained LGP and the contact happened with the dribbler 's right leg on the defenders left leg. The defender ended up shooting straight back and the offensive player kinda faded away to the left. To everyone in the world (and the coach who blew up) it looked like a block but all I saw was a legal defender and displacement. The contact doesn't have to occur right in the middle of the chest to have a charge, and this contact was nearly on the side of the body.

[Kelvin green]

I, too, think you should have a call on train wrecks. In the OP the player hit the floor hard. Calling stuff like this may prevent future injuries or other nonsense. If you don't call the PC, the kid that was on the floor may think it is OK to try the same thing, or you get jawing, or other retaliation.

If the game video is sent to the State, assignor, whoever... What is easier to defend? Calling a foul that is a foul by rule? Or giving hollow platitudes?

If a defender flops, that defender almost always interferes with a play by going to the floor with some sort of contact (could even be minor). If they trip, cause any contact at all... Call a block on a flopping player and I guarantee they will only flop 5 times during the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

I, too, think you should have a call on train wrecks.

I had such a wreck Friday night. I'm the new lead after a division line steal, couldn't really get ahead of the play, and decided to try to get a good angle instead. From the defender's movements, I could have sworn that she was going to try to block the shot, and readied myself for that possibility, but at the last split second she decided to try to take the charge. I didn't have the best position, I was preparing for a different play, and only saw the defender get hit in the torso, so I took a chance on a player control foul, and tried to sell it. The offensive player's fans went nuts, not your usual fan craziness, but enough craziness to give me pause, so I knew that I had probably screwed the pooch. The offensive player's coach gave me a pass, I think because he was thirty points behind in the third period, and decided to pick his fights.

After the game, I asked my partner about it, and sure enough, the defender was moving toward the offensive player at the time of the wreck, so I blew the call.

Despite this situation, I will still make educated guesses if I have train wrecks. With a whistle, you, at least, have only half the gym against you, and you're letting the players know that they can't willy-nilly bang into each other just for the hell of it, putting their own safety at risk.