Selling a block/charge no-call

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

In a close game like this I wanted to give A the benefit of the doubt, and with that in mind this just felt like a no-call. I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do differently in the future to let everyone know that I clearly saw the contact and decided not to call a foul rather than not blowing my whistle because I was unsure.

The first part in bold, should not factor in your decisions whether or not to call a foul. This philosophy will do nothing for your career other than cause you trouble.

Who cares what "everyone" thinks as to whether or not you had a no call or a missed call. By not blowing the whistle, you made it clear that you thought the contact was incidental. You can explain your no call to either or both coaches when they ask. Hopefully you give them better reasoning than you used on the forum to justify the no call.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do differently in the future to let everyone know that I clearly saw the contact and decided not to call a foul rather than not blowing my whistle because I was unsure.

Simple answer is no...outside of maintaining confident body posture and not "showing" you seconding guessing yourself there is no signal for a no-call in basketball. I do sometimes add a simple shake of the head...but you have to show confidence in the fact that you didn't call anything.

IMO...without being there of course...I would have made a call one way or the other.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

... falling does not equate to faking being fouled.

Falling does not, but flopping does.

Originally Posted by RedKillian

... a flop by the defense.

RedKillian's words, not mine.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Falling does not, but flopping does.



RedKillian's words, not mine.

Flopping is also exaggerating the effect of the contact, which I'm not T'ing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Flopping is also exaggerating the effect of the contact, which I'm not T'ing.

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

I've seen it called exactly once, ever. HS varsity boys. Defender screams in agony and falls backwards as the dribbler comes in. Alas for the defender, the referee had a great view (so did I) - of the foot of space between him and the dribbler. I think the rule is there for that -- the extreme situations that are blatantly clear as attempts to decieve the referee.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

I've called it one time. Little kid YMCA ball. Kid fell with no contact, I warned him and his coach, who nodded at me as if he had no clue.
Shortly after, he's playing defense about 25 get from the basket waiting for the dribbler. When the dribbler gets about 5 feet away, he flies back like he was kicked in the cheat by Jackie Chan.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

Under a minute left in a boys JV game, A has blown a double-digit lead in the second half and now trails by three. A1 makes a steal and goes on the fast break. B1 obtains LGP in front of the basket before A1 goes in for the layup. A1 moves to avoid B1, but still makes some contact and B1 falls hard and awkwardly to the floor. I decided not to call a foul and I'm confident in my decision. If I had called a foul it would've been PC on A1 -- B1 was certainly not guilty of a foul in my mind and A1 made an effort to avoid contact.

A's coach went crazy, yelling that I can't no-call here, that he just wanted a call one way or the other. With as hard as B1 hit the floor, I imagine that my lack of a whistle could come across as indecision. As some of you may know, my background is as a soccer referee, and when we make a big no-call we sometimes give a big NO! signal with the arms to let everyone know that we saw the contact and decided not to call a foul. Obviously this doesn't work so well in basketball, so does anyone have any tips to help sell a no-call in a situation like this?

If you have to sell a no call that hard that means you should have had a whistle. And everything you described indicates that it was a PC foul.

The reasons you gave for not calling a foul are going to get you in trouble. Don't overthink and complicate things. Just call what you see and if you are not sure then always err on the side of the rules.

There are things that some officials do to indicate a no call. A few years ago some NCAA officials would put both hands straight up to indicate the defender maintained verticality but I havent seen that recently. There is the get up sign to a player that may have flopped. There is the hitting of both hand together to indicate "all ball." The problem with all of these things is they have the potential to make you look bad on tape, especially if one of your partners comes in with a whistle or if you clearly missed the call. I will sometimes shake my head no on a block/charge no call but am trying to eliminate that as well.

The best thing you can do is simply look confident and keep officiating. If the appropriate time comes where the coach asks you about the call you need to be able to communicate with him using language that is supported by RULE. He "made an effort to avoid contact" sounds silly when there was in fact contact as you indicated. The fact that it was late in the game and you "wanted to give A1 the benefit of the doubt" are also horrible reasons that sound silly for not calling obvious contact.

You can say something to the effect of "that contact did not cause that result" or "the contact did not displace the defender," etc. But that's not how you described the play.

I would worry less about selling no calls and more about getting plays right and displaying strong, confident mechanics.

[La Rikardo]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Would you have called a charge in the first half?

Probably not, honestly.

Maybe my description of the play to emphasized the lack of fault on the part of B1 more than I should have...replaying the play in my mind, I still feel like the no-call was correct here. I'd love to be able to see it again, but I don't have video of the game.

Then again, in hindsight, I also probably could've saved myself a headache by calling PC. I guess all of this comes with experience.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

I also probably could've saved myself a headache by calling PC.

This is not ever a reason to make a call, but you already knew that.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by La Rikardo

Probably not, honestly.

Maybe my description of the play to emphasized the lack of fault on the part of B1 more than I should have...replaying the play in my mind, I still feel like the no-call was correct here. I'd love to be able to see it again, but I don't have video of the game.

Then again, in hindsight, I also probably could've saved myself a headache by calling PC. I guess all of this comes with experience.

I officiated H.S. soccer for 12 years and since you state that soccer is your primary sport, I get the feeling that you are trying to apply soccer's advantage philosophy to basketball. When officiating basketball forget soccer's advantage philosophy.

In basketball there is the Oswald Tower Philosophy of Advantage-Disadvantage but is not the same as soccer's advantage philosophy.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Finally Good Night.

[constable]

I had a play last week. A1 drives to the hoop. B1 in LGP goes down way before A1 makes any contact. I tell B1 to get up.

Next stoppage I warn him about flopping. I go by the bench during the next TO and tell B's HC about the flopping and the subsequent warning I issued.

His response: "you gotta call the kick ball!"

I literally snickered at him and then jogged to my next spot.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've never called a technical foul for a flop, but I have to ask, just what exactly would you "T" for under this rule?" For what other reason would a player exaggerate the effect of contact, other than faking being fouled?

On really pedantic note a player cannot fake being "fouled", since a foul is a judgement call by the official over ther impact contact has on a play at best a player can fake being contacted severely or situationally where they would expect a foul call.

I've been in a gym once where a T was called on this: a player had bailed out on a couple block charge situations where my partner felt he trying to buy calls, so he got warned. Later in the game the ball carrier was being doubled and started clearing space. Kid goes down again and my partner T's him up. Kid stands up and spits a mouthful of blood on my partner's shoe and gets tossed.

WHere would I call this:

- You would blatantly need to be faking contact that wasn't occuring at all. ie. The old slap yourself on the arm.
- You would need to be trying to get me call something that just isn't going to happen. Ie. In a block chrage situation if a defender chooses to fall back after minimal contact or no contact I'm not likley to warn or T that. I'm not t'ing a kid up for being soft. Now if they are making all sorts of sound effects or rolling around like a pro soccer game that might be different. Or if they start to complain for calls when that goes on and I've told them what to do to get the call.

Realisitcally its going to need to be a pretty extreme case for me T this up.

[biggravy]

1. JV game
2. LGP
3. Contact initiated by dribbler

Those were the key things I took out of OP. Dribbler tried to avoid contact... but he didn't! Too bad! PC. Think about it like this: The defender tried to block the shot but he hit the shooter on the arm. I didn't want to penalize him because he tried not to hit the shooter. It doesn't make sense! Call the PC. Your game will improve. That takes us back to #1. If you want to move up, start making this call. Not penalizing the offense in this case IS penalizing the legal defense.

Just my opinion...

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by biggravy

1. JV game
2. LGP
3. Contact initiated by dribbler

Those were the key things I took out of OP. Dribbler tried to avoid contact... but he didn't! Too bad! PC. Think about it like this: The defender tried to block the shot but he hit the shooter on the arm. I didn't want to penalize him because he tried not to hit the shooter. It doesn't make sense! Call the PC. Your game will improve. That takes us back to #1. If you want to move up, start making this call. Not penalizing the offense in this case IS penalizing the legal defense.

Just my opinion...

And Bingo was his name-o.