Coach refuses to shake hands

Originally Posted by johnny d

This situation would never happen in a college game. I don't think it would even happen in a Juco game. For most coaches at the college level, coaching is how they make their living. They are too professional to pull a stunt like this, and if they are not, they would not have risen to the point of being a college head coach. If however, it ever did happen to me in a college game, I would treat him and the game exactly how I treat every other game I officiate. I would answer his legitimate questions, ignore his statements, and give him the same latitude I give every other coach. Afterwards, I would report the incident to the assignor and allow him to handle the situation from there.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Wouldn't happen...remote chance it did they would also get no conversation for that game.

College coaches don't have time for that Harry high school crap.

Funny cuz I saw this same thing happen last year at a D3 game. Coach was pissed off about something and hung out at the far end of the bench and kinda waved when the refs went to shake the coaches hands. It was pretty clear he was staying away from the refs. He ended being a PITA during the game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Funny cuz I saw this same thing happen last year at a D3 game. Coach was pissed off about something and hung out at the far end of the bench and kinda waved when the refs went to shake the coaches hands. It was pretty clear he was staying away from the refs. He ended being a PITA during the game.

I would not take that as refusing to shake my hand, his wave is at least acknowledging our presence.

[biggravy]

Meh. Right or wrong I'm not obligated to converse with him. He's not getting any conversation with me.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Funny cuz I saw this same thing happen last year at a D3 game. Coach was pissed off about something and hung out at the far end of the bench and kinda waved when the refs went to shake the coaches hands. It was pretty clear he was staying away from the refs. He ended being a PITA during the game.

I guess this just goes to show that anything is possible at any level. I personally have never had this happen to me or seen this happen, nor have I ever heard of a college coach (or HS coach for that matter) pulling this kind of stunt from any official or assignor. I work in some leagues that are notorious for having coaches who can be PITAs, but I would be shocked if any of them even considered something as sophomoric as this. Like I said earlier though, the expectations at even lower level colleges are much higher, so I would be surprised if the coach at that D3 school is around for long.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That handshake is part of this game. The coach has demonstrated he doesn't want to interact with us. There are many things a coach can do to cause interaction to cease, this is but one of them.

Exactly, I'm not bringing in previous game experience or negative interaction with this coach. He just started this game with a big fat "Eff You." Would be no different than if, in the course of the game, I needed to ask him a question and he responded by turning his back.

Responding to that behavior doesn't require being vindictive. He's just told you he doesn't want to deal with you. How does that play itself out?

Well, now I know that I can't count on him to help me with his players if they start going off the rails with sportsmanship. I'll deal with it myself, and that means I'm much more likely to need to use a technical foul.

I know I can't count on him to be reasonable if I need to remind him to get back into the coaching box.

I know that if a player fouls out, I'm just going to let him know and have timer start immediately rather than wait to see if he hesitates with the sub.

I know that if his bench is acting up, he's not going to be much help in dealing with them, so I'll use the tools I have.

I know that if he's asking stupid questions, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt as to intent. The questions he'll get answered will be along the lines of "where's the throw in going to be".

He'll get my polite responses, but they'll be completely professional, short, and to the point. If he wants to be a jack-ass, I'm not going to get in his way.

[JRutledge]

I had a coach last year tell me after he was in my ear every time about calls, "Ref will you leave me alone."

I said "OK."

Then the very next trip on the court he started asking me a question about a call and my response was without missing a beat, "Didn't you tell me to leave you alone, you need to leave me alone." I then ignored him the rest of the game and he did not talk to me.

BTW this was a coach that was replacing the normal head coach and he was not used to officials at a certain experience level while acting as a head coach. His behavior reflected this.

Peace

[j51969]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, for that game, that's one HC who's not get any questions answered nor allowed any leeway if he steps outside the box and makes any type of comments.

FWIW,

I am not treating him any differently than the other coach. I don't take any of this personally even if others may. We are all human, but if I am going to sell my integrity it will be for a HELL of a lot more than a basketball game (at any level). I guess in these situations you will find the left and right limits of your .

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This situation would never happen in a college game.

It should never happen in a college game (or any game). Had it happen to my crew in a D-II game a few years back. Home Coach shook hands with me and one partner, but turned his back to walk away from our 3rd who he was mad at for something that happened earlier in the season.

I simply said "Coach, are you sure that this is the way you want to start things out tonight? You disrespect one of our crew, you disrespect us all."

He said "Fine with me."

He got very little conversation from any of us...gave us all 1's on the rating sheet (lowest he could give) and said we wouldn't communicate with him. My game report explained why...supervisor forwarded that report to AD and Conference Commissioner and he was reprimanded.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by j51969

FWIW,

I am not treating him any differently than the other coach. I don't take any of this personally even if others may. We are all human, but if I am going to sell my integrity it will be for a HELL of a lot more than a basketball game (at any level). I guess in these situations you will find the left and right limits of your .

No one said anyone is taking it personally. Calling out the integrity of those who disagree with you is absurd.

The coach makes it clear he doesn't want to communicate, and you think it's a lack of integrity to oblige?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by j51969

FWIW,

I am not treating him any differently than the other coach. I don't take any of this personally even if others may. We are all human, but if I am going to sell my integrity it will be for a HELL of a lot more than a basketball game (at any level). I guess in these situations you will find the left and right limits of your .

Did someone make it clear that they were going to call a game differently based off of a coach not speaking to them? Who said we had to speak to a coach to do our job? I have had coaches that shook hands, were very friendly only not to say a single word to an officials, other than what kind of timeout they wanted to use in a game. I am not getting this "integrity" BS you and others keep trying to elaborate on.

Heck I can decide I am not going to talk to a coach during a game when they have shown they are unreasonable. This just happens to be before the game and a situation that most of us have never seen. I have yet to see a coach act that childish. I have seen coaches not look pleased with a person before the game and usually it is reflected later in their comments. So if a coach is immature to do this, I have the right to make his wish come true.

Peace

[refinks]

I've never had it happen to me directly, of course by the same token at the level I work, I could care less if coaches and captains shake my hand or not. It's appreciated if they do, but if they don't, it's moreso because neither one of us took the first step to offer our hand. At the non-varsity level, it seems most officials could care less about having the pregame meeting with coaches and captains, and vice versa. It is what it is.

Now, I'm with the majority of those on the forum. If the coach wants to act like a dipwad during the game, he'll be treated as such. I give one chance for the coach to correct his or her behavior and that's it. I am usually inclinced to serve up tea before I cut off communications with a coach however. I can only think of 1 time where I was "done" with a coach. 1st half of a tough BJV game, I made a call and I could tell the coach was curious why I called what I did. He didn't ask me directly, but I could tell by his body language he wanted an explanation. When I started to give him one, he apparently didn't like it, because he told me that he didn't want to hear anything else I had to say tonight.

Second half, he decides now he is ready to ask me about some calls during the game. My response was probably longer than it needed to be, but in no certain words, I told him that if he didn't want me talking to him in the first half, then I wasn't going to talk to him in the second half either, and that if he had any questions for me, that he could communicate with me through my partner, but that was it. Message delivered and received, on my way out after the game he stopped me and apologized for his actions in the first half. I told him that I understand how coaches work and that I'm more than willing to communicate with him, but when you tell me during a game that you're done with me, then you can't go back on it, that it applies for the rest of the game.

All ended well in this situation as he got the answers he was looking for and we left peacefully. I've had him several times since and we've developed a good rapport with each other. Sometimes you have to be firm but fair to a coach to get your message across. If the coach knows what he's doing, he'll receive the message. If he doesn't, he probably won't be coaching long.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Coaches are disrespectful to officials all the time. Does that mean we lower ourselves to their level.

No, it does not. But we DO address it when they are. This particular circumstance is no different.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, for that game, that's one HC who's not get any questions answered nor allowed any leeway if he steps outside the box and makes any type of comments.

Originally Posted by j51969

FWIW,

I am not treating him any differently than the other coach. I don't take any of this personally even if others may. We are all human, but if I am going to sell my integrity it will be for a HELL of a lot more than a basketball game (at any level). I guess in these situations you will find the left and right limits of your .

What does integrity have to do with this?

Some folks are too concerned with having cozy relationships with coaches. My mechanics, signals, and voice communicate all the information a coach needs. If he wants more than that then his behavior needs to indicate such.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

It should never happen in a college game (or any game). Had it happen to my crew in a D-II game a few years back. Home Coach shook hands with me and one partner, but turned his back to walk away from our 3rd who he was mad at for something that happened earlier in the season.

I simply said "Coach, are you sure that this is the way you want to start things out tonight? You disrespect one of our crew, you disrespect us all."

He said "Fine with me."

He got very little conversation from any of us...gave us all 1's on the rating sheet (lowest he could give) and said we wouldn't communicate with him. My game report explained why...supervisor forwarded that report to AD and Conference Commissioner and he was reprimanded.

Exactly how I would handle it, and I would hope my conference admins would show me and my crew the same support.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Exactly how I would handle it, and I would hope my conference admins would show me and my crew the same support.

As you know and in college most of the time the Referee has to fill out a game report so that would go into the report for sure.

But if this took place at the high school level, we have what we call a "Special Report" form which would be anything that needed to be addressed in sportsmanship areas. This form is filled out online and it would go to the AD, Principal and Superintendent I believe. So it would be addressed by the offending party why this took place and how it would be corrected in the future. As officials we would not know what the end result is of that communication with the IHSA and school administration. And this document would go into the file of that coach and could be used like any other such "write-up" on an individual that is doing a job of any kind.

Peace