Apparel questions.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I wrote an email and NFHS informed me the case book was incorrect.

Yes, the alteration to 3-5-4 is an unannounced rule change this season. It is a good one though as there is no decent way for a game official to know the school colors for a particular institution. What if the school is visiting from out of state and just wearing black uniforms? So the committee wisely changed from a school color to the predominant color of the uniform.

The notice from the NFHS correcting the Case Book ruling is posted in the NFHS website with the Interpretations for this season.

Robert B. Gardner, Publisher, NFHS Publications © 2014

Rule Book Corrections: Page 2, 2014-15 NFHS Basketball Rules Changes, 9-1-4g should read 9-1-3g.
Page 55, Rule 9-1-4, Delete.
Case Book Corrections:
Pages 25-26, 3.5.4 SITUATION, RULING Correction: illegal equipment in (a); the blue headbands and wristbands do not match the predominant color of the uniform (white).
Page 29, 4.14.1D SITUATION, RULING Correction: Officials notify the Team A coach of the disqualification and allow a substitute for A1. The points made by A1 will stand. B3 is allowed to shoot the free throws for the technical foul and Team B is given the ball at half court to continue the game. (4-14-2; 2-11-5 Note)
Page 70, 9.1 COMMENT: Sentence 2 should read: Once a free throw begins no player may enter or leave a marked lane space or break with either foot the vertical plane of a free throw lane line or lane space boundary prior to the release of the ball by the free thrower. Delete last sentence.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The notice from the NFHS correcting the Case Book ruling is posted in the NFHS website with the Interpretations for this season.

The interps and corrections are also posted on this website.

[jeremy341a]

What about question one. Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

Apparently, no. These fashion guidelines are in two different rules. We all know the difference between sleeveless undershirts, and undershirts with sleeves, but the NFHS must not believe that undershirts have "sleeves".

Now check this out. What's the difference between compression shorts, that must be above the knee, and the same color as the uniform shorts; and short tights, that may be of any length (including short, i.e., above the knee), and must be white, black, beige, or the predominate color of the uniform jersey? Go ahead and tell me the difference. Please.

BillyMac: "Young man, you're not allowed to wear those gold tights because they are not white, black, beige, or the predominate color of your blue uniform jersey."
Player: "These are not tights, Mr. handsome official, they're gold compression shorts, and they match the gold color of my uniform shorts."
BillyMac: "Could you please get me a towel so that I may wipe the egg off my face. And I don't care what color the towel is."

Doesn't the NFHS think these things through before making final decisions on rule changes? Why can't they simplify these "color" rules for the benefit of officials, coaches, and players? I don't care if they make the "color" rules stricter, or less strict, but just make them simpler to understand, and interpret, and maybe, with a little bit of common sense, with "rule language" similar to the "everyday language" of officials, coaches, players, and the parents that probably purchase most of these fashion accessories. This shouldn't be rocket surgery, or brain science.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

What about question one. Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

Already answered:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Undershirts are a separate rule from arm/headbands & sleeves.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Already answered:

I seen that but I don't think it is that clear cut.

3-5-3a states anything worn on the arm is a sleeve and shall meet the color requirements
3-5-3c states all sleeves shall be the same color.

Seems that it could possibly be reasoned that the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under these two rules as the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under the "anything" part.

However also the sleeves are part of an undershirt so it would be logical that they would have to meet those requirements including the predominant color of the jersey.

Disclosure: we allowed the different colors as I felt it could be argued both ways. No one made an issue of it. So it just was a discussion my partner and I had.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I seen that but I don't think it is that clear cut.

3-5-3a states anything worn on the arm is a sleeve and shall meet the color requirements
3-5-3c states all sleeves shall be the same color.

Seems that it could possibly be reasoned that the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under these two rules as the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under the "anything" part.

However also the sleeves are part of an undershirt so it would be logical that they would have to meet those requirements including the predominant color of the jersey.

Disclosure: we allowed the different colors as I felt it could be argued both ways. No one made an issue of it. So it just was a discussion my partner and I had.

"sleeves" are only on the arm (when talking about arm sleeves) undershirts have sleeves but also cover the tummy….dont fight it. its an undershirt if the sleeves are attached...

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BigCat

"sleeves" are only on the arm (when talking about arm sleeves) undershirts have sleeves but also cover the tummy….dont fight it. its an undershirt if the sleeves are attached...

I'm fine with it either way. That is why we allowed it we though you could easily make the case that it is legal.

I like the rule change to predominant color. I would prefer to see the rule that predominant color is the only allowed option for all apparel.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

... so it would be logical ...

That's your problem, assuming that the NFHS fashion police rules are logical. You are confusing the NFHS with Mr. Spock. They are 180 degrees apart. Check out my compression shorts/tights question in post #14 above. Stupid NFHS.

Mr. Spock:



NFHS:

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's your problem, assuming that the NFHS fashion police rules are logical. You are confusing the NFHS with Mr. Spock. They are 180 degrees apart. Check out my compression shorts/tights question in post #14 above. Stupid NFHS.

Mr. Spock:



NFHS:

+1

MTD, Sr.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I seen that but I don't think it is that clear cut.

3-5-3a states anything worn on the arm is a sleeve and shall meet the color requirements
3-5-3c states all sleeves shall be the same color.

Seems that it could possibly be reasoned that the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under these two rules as the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under the "anything" part.

However also the sleeves are part of an undershirt so it would be logical that they would have to meet those requirements including the predominant color of the jersey.
....

It is that clear cut. And if you don't think it is that clear cut from the very clear answer I gave, what answer do you think is going to bring anymore clarity?

Rule 3-5-3 specifically says "Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:" Arm sleeves are a separate piece of equipment, they are not a part of a t-shirt or undershirt.

Rule 3-5-6 specifically talks about undershirts, which is a single item that has to be a single, solid color. If the home team was wearing a white t-shirt that had black sleeves, then that is not a single color, it's multiple colors.

T-shirts and arm sleeves are 2 separate rules and 2 separate items of equipment.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It is that clear cut. And if you don't think it is that clear cut from the very clear answer I gave, what answer do you think is going to bring anymore clarity?

Rule 3-5-3 specifically says "Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:" Arm sleeves are a separate piece of equipment, they are not a part of a t-shirt or undershirt.

Rule 3-5-6 specifically talks about undershirts, which is a single item that has to be a single, solid color. If the home team was wearing a white t-shirt that had black sleeves, then that is not a single color, it's multiple colors.

T-shirts and arm sleeves are 2 separate rules and 2 separate items of equipment.

The part in which I believe causing some ambiguity is in rule 3-5-3a that states "anything that is worn on the arm and/or leg us a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions."

The rule says "anything." No where in there does it say except if attached to an undershirt. No where does it say that the undershirt rule takes priority over this rule. That is why I say it isn't clear cut.

Even in the undershirt rule is uses the word sleeves to define sleeves on a shirt. Also per the definition of sleeves as being anything worn on the arm. I feel it is reasonable that some could conclude that if a player had a blue undershirt with long blue sleeves on that all other players sleeves must match.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

What about question one. Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

See post 2.

Undershirts are one rule.

Sleeves (arm and leg) are another (in FED; in NCAAW they are two rules)

Bands (head and wrist) are another.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

What about question one. Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

if it is an undershirt it can be long sleeve in high school but it must be predominant color of uniform.(color of the neutral zone i think they call it) both sleeves on undershirt have to be same length. entirely different rule for "sleeves" as pointed out. thx

undershirts have sleeves... but their not sleeves…that seems fitting for fashion police rules...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

... undershirts have sleeves... but their not sleeves…that seems fitting for fashion police rules...

Well stated. Stupid NFHS.