Apparel questions.

[jeremy341a]

What about question one. Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

Apparently, no. These fashion guidelines are in two different rules. We all know the difference between sleeveless undershirts, and undershirts with sleeves, but the NFHS must not believe that undershirts have "sleeves".

Now check this out. What's the difference between compression shorts, that must be above the knee, and the same color as the uniform shorts; and short tights, that may be of any length (including short, i.e., above the knee), and must be white, black, beige, or the predominate color of the uniform jersey? Go ahead and tell me the difference. Please.

BillyMac: "Young man, you're not allowed to wear those gold tights because they are not white, black, beige, or the predominate color of your blue uniform jersey."
Player: "These are not tights, Mr. handsome official, they're gold compression shorts, and they match the gold color of my uniform shorts."
BillyMac: "Could you please get me a towel so that I may wipe the egg off my face. And I don't care what color the towel is."

Doesn't the NFHS think these things through before making final decisions on rule changes? Why can't they simplify these "color" rules for the benefit of officials, coaches, and players? I don't care if they make the "color" rules stricter, or less strict, but just make them simpler to understand, and interpret, and maybe, with a little bit of common sense, with "rule language" similar to the "everyday language" of officials, coaches, players, and the parents that probably purchase most of these fashion accessories. This shouldn't be rocket surgery, or brain science.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

What about question one. Are the different sleeves on the undershirt not considered arm sleeves for the purpose of matching all other sleeves or are the required to meet the rules for undershirts and sleeves?

Already answered:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Undershirts are a separate rule from arm/headbands & sleeves.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Already answered:

I seen that but I don't think it is that clear cut.

3-5-3a states anything worn on the arm is a sleeve and shall meet the color requirements
3-5-3c states all sleeves shall be the same color.

Seems that it could possibly be reasoned that the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under these two rules as the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under the "anything" part.

However also the sleeves are part of an undershirt so it would be logical that they would have to meet those requirements including the predominant color of the jersey.

Disclosure: we allowed the different colors as I felt it could be argued both ways. No one made an issue of it. So it just was a discussion my partner and I had.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I seen that but I don't think it is that clear cut.

3-5-3a states anything worn on the arm is a sleeve and shall meet the color requirements
3-5-3c states all sleeves shall be the same color.

Seems that it could possibly be reasoned that the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under these two rules as the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under the "anything" part.

However also the sleeves are part of an undershirt so it would be logical that they would have to meet those requirements including the predominant color of the jersey.

Disclosure: we allowed the different colors as I felt it could be argued both ways. No one made an issue of it. So it just was a discussion my partner and I had.

"sleeves" are only on the arm (when talking about arm sleeves) undershirts have sleeves but also cover the tummy….dont fight it. its an undershirt if the sleeves are attached...

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BigCat

"sleeves" are only on the arm (when talking about arm sleeves) undershirts have sleeves but also cover the tummy….dont fight it. its an undershirt if the sleeves are attached...

I'm fine with it either way. That is why we allowed it we though you could easily make the case that it is legal.

I like the rule change to predominant color. I would prefer to see the rule that predominant color is the only allowed option for all apparel.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I would prefer to see the rule that predominant color is the only allowed option for all apparel.

Sounds good, but that would force players to have two sets of fashion accessories, one set for home, and another set for the road, which would double the cost to teams, players, or parents. Right now they only have to purchase two different undershirts.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds good, but that would force players to have two sets of fashion accessories, one set for home, and another set for the road, which would double the cost to teams, players, or parents. Right now they only have to purchase two different undershirts.

I don't think that is a valid complaint. Since these are items not required and they are choosing to spend the extra money it would be hard for them to complain about buying two sets when they are not required to buy any.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I'm fine with it either way. That is why we allowed it we though you could easily make the case that it is legal.

I like the rule change to predominant color. I would prefer to see the rule that predominant color is the only allowed option for all apparel.

…and they want to let kids wear the stuff and they just don't make them in every color...

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by BigCat

…and they want to let kids wear the stuff and they just don't make them in every color...

I would hazard a guess that one could find these accessories in every major uniform color. Perhaps a different shade but still the same color.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

... so it would be logical ...

That's your problem, assuming that the NFHS fashion police rules are logical. You are confusing the NFHS with Mr. Spock. They are 180 degrees apart. Check out my compression shorts/tights question in post #14 above. Stupid NFHS.

Mr. Spock:



NFHS:

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's your problem, assuming that the NFHS fashion police rules are logical. You are confusing the NFHS with Mr. Spock. They are 180 degrees apart. Check out my compression shorts/tights question in post #14 above. Stupid NFHS.

Mr. Spock:



NFHS:

+1

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

+1

Thanks Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I was sure that it would be deleted by the moderators, but I guess that they're a little more lenient on lazy Sundays.

Actually, they've been very patient with me lately. Did becoming an esteemed member really come with some clout? Do they know something about me that I don't? Do I have only two weeks to live? Am I dying?

In any case, they're doing a good job. That's why they get paid the big internet bucks. I've been forwarding my Forum dues to Mark Padgett, as he instructed, and I'm sure that he's passing on the cash to the moderators.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was sure that it would be deleted by the moderators, but I guess that they're a little more lenient on lazy Sundays.

Why would you post something if you were sure it would be deleted?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

I seen that but I don't think it is that clear cut.

3-5-3a states anything worn on the arm is a sleeve and shall meet the color requirements
3-5-3c states all sleeves shall be the same color.

Seems that it could possibly be reasoned that the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under these two rules as the sleeves of an undershirt would follow under the "anything" part.

However also the sleeves are part of an undershirt so it would be logical that they would have to meet those requirements including the predominant color of the jersey.
....

It is that clear cut. And if you don't think it is that clear cut from the very clear answer I gave, what answer do you think is going to bring anymore clarity?

Rule 3-5-3 specifically says "Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:" Arm sleeves are a separate piece of equipment, they are not a part of a t-shirt or undershirt.

Rule 3-5-6 specifically talks about undershirts, which is a single item that has to be a single, solid color. If the home team was wearing a white t-shirt that had black sleeves, then that is not a single color, it's multiple colors.

T-shirts and arm sleeves are 2 separate rules and 2 separate items of equipment.