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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 10:25am
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Administrative Technical Restart?

NFHS Girl's JV game

Early in the 2nd Quarter, White turns the ball over out of bounds so as I am getting ready to put the ball back in to play with a Blue Throw-in. I get called over by the scorers table, the home book does not have a Blue 33. Check both books, give Blue coach his Indirect T......

What is the proper restart?
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 10:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchu44 View Post
NFHS Girl's JV game

Early in the 2nd Quarter, White turns the ball over out of bounds so as I am getting ready to put the ball back in to play with a Blue Throw-in. I get called over by the scorers table, the home book does not have a Blue 33. Check both books, give Blue coach his Indirect T......

What is the proper restart?
The same as any other technical foul in an NFHS game.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 10:32am
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First off, this is a team technical foul. The coach is not assessed an indirect T and still has the use of his box.

You would resume play by administering the free throws as a result of the technical foul and a throw-in at half court for the team that shot the free throws. NFHS you administer all T's in the same fashion.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 10:48am
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Was Blue 33 in the game? (if not, and if she hadn't scored / been charged with a foul, there's no T, yet)

What info was given to the table? (if 33 was on the roster given to the table, then there's no T, even if the information wasn't properly transcribed)

(just adding, since the OP was properly answered)

Last edited by bob jenkins; Fri Dec 05, 2014 at 10:50am.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 11:36am
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As APG said, this is NOT an indirect on the coach.

Indirect technical fouls are ALWAYS paired with a direct technical on someone else, someone whose behavior the coach is responsible for (a team member that is not currently a player or bench personnel). That is why they are called indirect. Someone else earned it by a specific action, but the coach is held partly/indirectly responsible. Book T's are not earned by someone...they just are.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 11:39am
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
As APG said, this is NOT an indirect on the coach.

Indirect technical fouls are ALWAYS paired with a direct technical on someone else, someone whose behavior the coach is responsible for (a team member that is not currently a player or bench personnel). That is why they are called indirect. Someone else earned it by a specific action, but the coach is held partly/indirectly responsible. Book T's are not earned by someone...they just are.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 11:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Was Blue 33 in the game? (if not, and if she hadn't scored / been charged with a foul, there's no T, yet)

What info was given to the table? (if 33 was on the roster given to the table, then there's no T, even if the information wasn't properly transcribed)

(just adding, since the OP was properly answered)
This. If 33 hasn't been in the game it's nothing yet. Also, if 33 had already played in the first period and it wasn't caught, isn't it to late now?
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 11:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Was Blue 33 in the game? (if not, and if she hadn't scored / been charged with a foul, there's no T, yet)

What info was given to the table? (if 33 was on the roster given to the table, then there's no T, even if the information wasn't properly transcribed)

(just adding, since the OP was properly answered)
We have a local custom nowadays where officials take the book from the table to each coach before the game and have them approve it. They say this puts all responsibility on the coach for names/numbers/starters in the book. I say that even if he supposedly checks his roster in the book, I'm still not giving an administrative technical if the scorer had transcribed something wrong from a team's book to the main book at the table. By rule all he has to do is provide them his roster before the 10-minute mark. Not sit next to them and make sure they copy it correctly.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 01:18pm
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Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
This. If 33 hasn't been in the game it's nothing yet. Also, if 33 had already played in the first period and it wasn't caught, isn't it to late now?
Depends who you ask. The NFHS rules require a record to be kept of all starts and any substitutes who enter. That record is the scorebook. So if the individual has played, then he/she must be entered into the book. That would cause a team technical foul to be assessed.
There was an NFHS play ruling issued a couple of seasons ago stating that once the kid exited the game, the officials wouldn't penalize unless he/she came back in. That seems silly to me and doesn't mesh with the rule. Why should a team be allowed to break the rule without punishment just because the table crew didn't notice. If it is clear that the individual has played, then where's the required record of that?
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 01:59pm
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Do you feel like you're having to repeat yourself lately?
It's eerie.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 02:18pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
... That seems silly to me and doesn't mesh with the rule. Why should a team be allowed to break the rule without punishment just because the table crew didn't notice. If it is clear that the individual has played, then where's the required record of that?
For the same reason a kid with a busted lip after a missed lay-up doesn't get to shoot free throws, sometimes we miss things and can't fix them, even if we have evidence after the fact.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 03:24pm
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Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Do you feel like you're having to repeat yourself lately?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It's eerie.
yes...it is somewhat amusing that the same topic has come up in multiple places at the same time.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 10:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
First off, this is a team technical foul. The coach is not assessed an indirect T and still has the use of his box.

You would resume play by administering the free throws as a result of the technical foul and a throw-in at half court for the team that shot the free throws. NFHS you administer all T's in the same fashion.
I had this play tonight. The kid had played in the first half without the table notifying us. The coach knew what the consequences would be if his player was subbed in. He took the technical. His team won by 40 so he could afford it.
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Old Fri Dec 05, 2014, 11:26pm
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Double jinxed guys, had my first administrative technical tonight. JV game, I go to check the book at 4:00 and the scorer informs me the visiting team just changed a number. Boom, cherry popped!
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Old Sat Dec 06, 2014, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
This. If 33 hasn't been in the game it's nothing yet. Also, if 33 had already played in the first period and it wasn't caught, isn't it to late now?
Many administrative infractions can involve the scorebook and rosters. If a team adds a name to the team roster after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. When such a player legally enters the court, the player’s name and uniform number must be entered into the official scorebook. In order to penalize this infraction, the offending team member must be one of the five players currently in the game. In addition, if a team requires the official scorer to change a team member or player’s uniform number in the official scorebook (with exception), after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. If there is no request for change, or if a team member does not become a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty.

Similarly, if a team requires a player to change to a number in the official scorebook after the ten minute time limit, then a team technical foul is charged. A maximum of one team technical foul is charged regardless of the number of players, and substitutes, not wearing the number indicated in the official scorebook. Each player must wear the number indicated in the official scorebook, or change the official scorebook number to that which the player is wearing. Any additional substitutes who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the official scorebook will not result in a penalty, as the one maximum technical has already been charged to the team for this administrative infraction. If there is no request for change, or if the team member does not become a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty.

Three scorebook situations: adding a name to the team roster, changing a name or a number in the official scorebook, and/or having a player change a uniform number, are penalized with a team technical foul when they occur, after the ten minute time limit. These infractions occur when the scorer is advised to add to or change the official scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball becomes live, after such changes have been made to the scorebook, it is too late to penalize.
After the ten minute time limit a team is charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed: changing a designated starter, adding a name to the team member list, requiring the scorer to change a team member’s or player’s number in the scorebook, requiring a player to change to the number in the scorebook, and/or having identical numbers on team members and/or players. Each player must wear the number indicated in the scorebook, or change the official scorebook number to that the player is wearing. Any additional substitutes who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the official scorebook will not result in a penalty, as the one maximum technical has already been charged to the team for that team’s administrative infraction
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Dec 06, 2014 at 11:11am.
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