Fumble or shot attempt? (Video)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with your logic completely. It is really hard to tell someone you know what you are doing when you cannot prove it to anyone, unless you see it in a very special place. Not everyone is going to come to this site to know what to do. And if you started officiating well after an interpretation, then you are at a big disadvantage. I have been saying what you have been saying for years. If the interpretations still applies, it should be in the casebook still. Otherwise we are just using a certain kind of knowledge as law in these kinds of cases.

Peace

i agree. i don't think the explanation in that 2000 interp really explains anything either. the travel rule on jumping just says ball has to be released on a try or pass. case book plays tell us what can be done and not done after ball is released.

i can understand why you might want that to be the rule---player fumbled going up to pass or shoot, he made mistake. say he can't touch it first. put it in the case book. what's in the case book is the play where dribbler ends his dribble, fumbles and is allowed to go get it. language says he can always retrieve fumble. why allow that and not allow shooter or passer to retrieve his fumble…
and why put one in case book and not the other…..sorry I'm rambling...

[Kansas Ref]

Ambiguity reigns, but I've got "nothing".

I could not tell what violation our ref had in the video--could not see his mechanic--was it clear to anyone else on our forum?

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I could not tell what violation our ref had in the video--could not see his mechanic--was it clear to anyone else on our forum?

It sure looked like the end of an illegal dribble signal to me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i can understand why you might want that to be the rule---player fumbled going up to pass or shoot, he made mistake. say he can't touch it first. put it in the case book. what's in the case book is the play where dribbler ends his dribble, fumbles and is allowed to go get it. language says he can always retrieve fumble. why allow that and not allow shooter or passer to retrieve his fumble…
and why put one in case book and not the other…..sorry I'm rambling...

The NFHS may change the rule to match the NCAA at some point in the future, but that hasn't happened yet.

The reason that there is a difference between this ruling and the dribble one in the NFHS Case Book is that the dribbling player has not yet lifted his pivot foot into the air. As you can read for yourself in 4-44, once a player picks up his pivot, the ball must be passed or shot. If not, by rule, a traveling violation has occurred.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS may change the rule to match the NCAA at some point in the future, but that hasn't happened yet.

The reason that there is a difference between this ruling and the dribble one in the NFHS Case Book is that the dribbling player has not yet lifted his pivot foot into the air. As you can read for yourself in 4-44, once a player picks up his pivot, the ball must be passed or shot. If not, by rule, a traveling violation has occurred.

The fumble /dribble play I am Talking about is 4.15.4. The player has dribbled. He ends the dribble and in doing so also fumbles ball several feet away. He is allowed to run and recover it. Nothing in that play about foot in air....

[BigCat]

I think I see what u r saying

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I think I see what u r saying

I'm saying that in that Case Book play, we should understand that the player ended his dribble and then fumbled the ball BEFORE lifting his pivot foot. Thus there is no problem with the provision of the traveling rule and he may go retrieve the ball.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm saying that in that Case Book play, we should understand that the player ended his dribble and then fumbled the ball BEFORE lifting his pivot foot. Thus there is no problem with the provision of the traveling rule and he may go retrieve the ball.

Nevada,

Tell me what you do on the jump stop play. (the one where player ends dribble with one foot on floor, jumps and lands simultaneously on two feet. neither can be a pivot.) plz assume player touches ball with two hands just prior to the foot leaving the ground. fumbles while in air in process of ending dribble. ball goes 5 feet away. he goes and recovers. thx

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Nevada,

Tell me what you do on the jump stop play. (the one where player ends dribble with one foot on floor, jumps and lands simultaneously on two feet. neither can be a pivot.) plz assume player touches ball with two hands just prior to the foot leaving the ground. fumbles while in air in process of ending dribble. ball goes 5 feet away. he goes and recovers. thx

It seems to me that the player fumbled the ball before lifting his pivot foot, so the same answer would apply.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS may change the rule to match the NCAA at some point in the future, but that hasn't happened yet.

The reason that there is a difference between this ruling and the dribble one in the NFHS Case Book is that the dribbling player has not yet lifted his pivot foot into the air. As you can read for yourself in 4-44, once a player picks up his pivot, the ball must be passed or shot. If not, by rule, a traveling violation has occurred.

Based on this interpretation, the player should not be allowed to request a timeout to avoid the requirements.