Illegal Subs and Penalty

[The_Rookie]

Under what circumstances would a "T" be assessed for Illegal Subs?

Versus if illegal sub slips into game and clock starts?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Under what circumstances would a "T" be assessed for Illegal Subs?

Versus if illegal sub slips into game and clock starts?

It depends a little on what you mean by "illegal subs" but two reaosn are listed in 10-2.

And, most of the time, you can and should prevent the T by holding up the sub and making him/her report and then be beckoned.

And, once the ball becomes live, it's always too late to penalize (for these particular infractions).

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It depends a little on what you mean by "illegal subs" but two reaosn are listed in 10-2.

And, most of the time, you can and should prevent the T by holding up the sub and making him/her report and then be beckoned.

And, once the ball becomes live, it's always too late to penalize (for these particular infractions).

Bob, I think my confusion comes from case 10.5.3..in explanation of the ruling its mentions "T" on head coach..is that only if the illegal sub was done in a deliberate manner? Is there an instance when a Coach would get a "T" related to a rules infraction on subs?

Thanks!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Bob, I think my confusion comes from case 10.5.3..in explanation of the ruling its mentions "T" on head coach..is that only if the illegal sub was done in a deliberate manner? Is there an instance when a Coach would get a "T" related to a rules infraction on subs?

Thanks!

What sort of rules infraction are you thinking about. In most cases, the sub simply becomes a player if we don't catch it. I'm not sure what you're thinking of in terms of illegal subs here.

If you're thinking of the disqualified player entering the game, remember, the player is only disqualified after we notified the coach: so if the coach is never notified, there's no penalty. If he's notified, "intent" is not an issue.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by Adam

What sort of rules infraction are you thinking about. In most cases, the sub simply becomes a player if we don't catch it. I'm not sure what you're thinking of in terms of illegal subs here.

If you're thinking of the disqualified player entering the game, remember, the player is only disqualified after we notified the coach: so if the coach is never notified, there's no penalty. If he's notified, "intent" is not an issue.

If a disqualified player enters the game then it would be "T" on coach because of the act of a bench player re entering the game after disqualification?

Scenario:
A1 is called for his 5th foul and the coach has been notified. A1 sits on the bench and 4 minutes later enters the game. The clock started and 25 seconds elapsed and table hits horn notifying us A1 has been disqualified.

Ruling?

[Rich1]

Sometimes, especially in middle school games, subs waiting at the table will just run on in when play is stopped instead of waiting to be beckoned. In fact, have seen this with older kids during summer ball as well. Usually I can catch them and shoo them back to the table with a stern warning. But when it happens multiple times or they don't listen a T could give the coach motivation to instruct his players how to properly sub.

Also, a player who leaves the floor and goes to the bench before sus are beckoned could be T'd for an unauthorized exit.

Once had all 5 subs run on and all 5 players run off while partner was reporting a foul. Didn't them (they were young) but made them do it right while garing at them menacingly

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

If a disqualified player enters the game then it would be "T" on coach because of the act of a bench player re entering the game after disqualification?

Scenario:
A1 is called for his 5th foul and the coach has been notified. A1 sits on the bench and 4 minutes later enters the game. The clock started and 25 seconds elapsed and table hits horn notifying us A1 has been disqualified.

Ruling?

NFHS 10.5.3

The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate after being removed from the game for disqualification.

PENALTY: Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is charged directly to the head coach. Penalized if discovered while being violated.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Bob, I think my confusion comes from case 10.5.3..in explanation of the ruling its mentions "T" on head coach..is that only if the illegal sub was done in a deliberate manner? Is there an instance when a Coach would get a "T" related to a rules infraction on subs?

Thanks!

Ah -- that's not an illegal sub -- that's putting someone who the coach knew was DQ'd back into the game. Intent doesn't matter.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich1

Sometimes, especially in middle school games, subs waiting at the table will just run on in when play is stopped instead of waiting to be beckoned. In fact, have seen this with older kids during summer ball as well. Usually I can catch them and shoo them back to the table with a stern warning. But when it happens multiple times or they don't listen a T could give the coach motivation to instruct his players how to properly sub.

Also, a player who leaves the floor and goes to the bench before sus are beckoned could be T'd for an unauthorized exit.

Once had all 5 subs run on and all 5 players run off while partner was reporting a foul. Didn't them (they were young) but made them do it right while garing at them menacingly

Two things: First, all the time? Really? I have literally never seen it, in any level.

Second: Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a violation, not a T.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Adam

Second: Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a violation, not a T.

Amazing how leaving out a few words changes the entire meaning

NFHS 10-3-6i

A player shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as (leaving) the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust or intimidation.