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The_Rookie Sun Oct 26, 2014 06:43pm

Illegal Subs and Penalty
 
Under what circumstances would a "T" be assessed for Illegal Subs?

Versus if illegal sub slips into game and clock starts?

bob jenkins Sun Oct 26, 2014 08:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 942444)
Under what circumstances would a "T" be assessed for Illegal Subs?

Versus if illegal sub slips into game and clock starts?

It depends a little on what you mean by "illegal subs" but two reaosn are listed in 10-2.

And, most of the time, you can and should prevent the T by holding up the sub and making him/her report and then be beckoned.

And, once the ball becomes live, it's always too late to penalize (for these particular infractions).

The_Rookie Sun Oct 26, 2014 09:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 942447)
It depends a little on what you mean by "illegal subs" but two reaosn are listed in 10-2.

And, most of the time, you can and should prevent the T by holding up the sub and making him/her report and then be beckoned.

And, once the ball becomes live, it's always too late to penalize (for these particular infractions).

Bob, I think my confusion comes from case 10.5.3..in explanation of the ruling its mentions "T" on head coach..is that only if the illegal sub was done in a deliberate manner? Is there an instance when a Coach would get a "T" related to a rules infraction on subs?

Thanks!

Adam Sun Oct 26, 2014 09:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 942448)
Bob, I think my confusion comes from case 10.5.3..in explanation of the ruling its mentions "T" on head coach..is that only if the illegal sub was done in a deliberate manner? Is there an instance when a Coach would get a "T" related to a rules infraction on subs?

Thanks!

What sort of rules infraction are you thinking about. In most cases, the sub simply becomes a player if we don't catch it. I'm not sure what you're thinking of in terms of illegal subs here.

If you're thinking of the disqualified player entering the game, remember, the player is only disqualified after we notified the coach: so if the coach is never notified, there's no penalty. If he's notified, "intent" is not an issue.

The_Rookie Sun Oct 26, 2014 09:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 942449)
What sort of rules infraction are you thinking about. In most cases, the sub simply becomes a player if we don't catch it. I'm not sure what you're thinking of in terms of illegal subs here.

If you're thinking of the disqualified player entering the game, remember, the player is only disqualified after we notified the coach: so if the coach is never notified, there's no penalty. If he's notified, "intent" is not an issue.

If a disqualified player enters the game then it would be "T" on coach because of the act of a bench player re entering the game after disqualification?

Scenario:
A1 is called for his 5th foul and the coach has been notified. A1 sits on the bench and 4 minutes later enters the game. The clock started and 25 seconds elapsed and table hits horn notifying us A1 has been disqualified.

Ruling?

Rich1 Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:43pm

Happens all the time
 
Sometimes, especially in middle school games, subs waiting at the table will just run on in when play is stopped instead of waiting to be beckoned. In fact, have seen this with older kids during summer ball as well. Usually I can catch them and shoo them back to the table with a stern warning. But when it happens multiple times or they don't listen a T could give the coach motivation to instruct his players how to properly sub.

Also, a player who leaves the floor and goes to the bench before sus are beckoned could be T'd for an unauthorized exit.

Once had all 5 subs run on and all 5 players run off while partner was reporting a foul. Didn't them (they were young) but made them do it right while garing at them menacingly;)

JetMetFan Mon Oct 27, 2014 06:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 942450)
If a disqualified player enters the game then it would be "T" on coach because of the act of a bench player re entering the game after disqualification?

Scenario:
A1 is called for his 5th foul and the coach has been notified. A1 sits on the bench and 4 minutes later enters the game. The clock started and 25 seconds elapsed and table hits horn notifying us A1 has been disqualified.

Ruling?

NFHS 10.5.3

The head coach shall not permit a team member to participate after being removed from the game for disqualification.

PENALTY: Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. The foul is charged directly to the head coach. Penalized if discovered while being violated.

bob jenkins Mon Oct 27, 2014 08:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 942448)
Bob, I think my confusion comes from case 10.5.3..in explanation of the ruling its mentions "T" on head coach..is that only if the illegal sub was done in a deliberate manner? Is there an instance when a Coach would get a "T" related to a rules infraction on subs?

Thanks!

Ah -- that's not an illegal sub -- that's putting someone who the coach knew was DQ'd back into the game. Intent doesn't matter.

Adam Mon Oct 27, 2014 09:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich1 (Post 942451)
Sometimes, especially in middle school games, subs waiting at the table will just run on in when play is stopped instead of waiting to be beckoned. In fact, have seen this with older kids during summer ball as well. Usually I can catch them and shoo them back to the table with a stern warning. But when it happens multiple times or they don't listen a T could give the coach motivation to instruct his players how to properly sub.

Also, a player who leaves the floor and goes to the bench before sus are beckoned could be T'd for an unauthorized exit.

Once had all 5 subs run on and all 5 players run off while partner was reporting a foul. Didn't them (they were young) but made them do it right while garing at them menacingly;)

Two things: First, all the time? Really? I have literally never seen it, in any level.

Second: Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a violation, not a T.

JetMetFan Mon Oct 27, 2014 04:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 942458)
Second: Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a violation, not a T.

Amazing how leaving out a few words changes the entire meaning ;)

NFHS 10-3-6i

A player shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as (leaving) the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust or intimidation.


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