"Long Jump" on a Throw In?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I appreciate your reference to 9-2-10 Note. That seems to be a relevant citation.
However, your second point is not applicable because in the question the designated spot does not prevail--it's after a made or awarded basket when there is not designated throw-in spot.

The post did point out that you were wrong in your assumption that it was illegal on a designated spot throw-in.

As for a throw-in after a made basket, there is no restriction on the throw-in breaking the plane on a throw-in. So it doesn't matter whether ir is a spot throw-in or after a made basket. As long as they release the throw before they touch inbounds.

[BryanV21]

I think our answer is in the note at the end of Rule 9.2.10...

"The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the inbounds area or a player inbounds before the ball is released on the throw-in pass."

Since said thrower last touched the spot-throw area, therefore is technically still there, then the play is legal.

However, if the thrower touches a player defending the throw-in before releasing the ball, it's illegal.

[Freddy]

I'm happy to call the long-jumper "legal" on a designated spot throw-in, except for this one requirement, expressed in two places, that sticks in my mind:
"The thrower must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released" (4-42-6 NOTE). And, "The thrower shall not leave the designated throw-in spot until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass" (7-6-3 and 9-2-1). The phrase "You are where you were 'til you get where you're going" seems not to apply when the above requirement restricts it, with the designated spot, of course, not extending past the boundary line.
The NOTE after 9-2-10 ("The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she doesn not touch the inbounds area..." doesn't, I'm thinking, dismiss the above requirement, either.
Agree?

Important to me cuz "Throw-Ins" is the topic of our next pre-season rules meeting.

Thanx for your responses, the ones that dwell on what's in the book.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I'm happy to call the long-jumper "legal" on a designated spot throw-in, except for this one requirement, expressed in two places, that sticks in my mind:
"The thrower must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released" (4-42-6 NOTE). And, "The thrower shall not leave the designated throw-in spot until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass" (7-6-3 and 9-2-1). The phrase "You are where you were 'til you get where you're going" seems not to apply when the above requirement restricts it, with the designated spot, of course, not extending past the boundary line.
The NOTE after 9-2-10 ("The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she doesn not touch the inbounds area..." doesn't, I'm thinking, dismiss the above requirement, either.
Agree?

Important to me cuz "Throw-Ins" is the topic of our next pre-season rules meeting.

Thanx for your responses, the ones that dwell on what's in the book.

Does the definition of the designated spot say that the thrower can not break the plane? Don't have my books with me, but if I remember correctly, the designated spot "definition" has no depth limitations - simply width limitations.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Does the definition of the designated spot say that the thrower can not break the plane? Don't have my books with me, but if I remember correctly, the designated spot "definition" has no depth limitations - simply width limitations.

The spot is out of bounds.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Does the definition of the designated spot say that the thrower can not break the plane? Don't have my books with me, but if I remember correctly, the designated spot "definition" has no depth limitations - simply width limitations.

I believe the above phrase is only saying that, while the width is specifically 3', there is no specific number of feet away from the boundary where the spot is limited. But, the spot IS limited in that directly, just not by a number of feet. It is limited by a wall/seats/bleachers/etc.

I believe the spot is defined to be OOB.

Thus, a player jumping over the inbounds area will have left the spot if neither foot is still over the OOB spot.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... a player jumping over the inbounds area will have left the spot of neither foot is still over the OOB spot.

Sounds good, but I'm having some trouble (can't really put my finger on it, it's just a bad feeling) giving my full agreement.

In the words of the great, esteemed Forum member, Freddy ...

Originally Posted by Freddy

But I'm not quite there yet.......

I guess that I need a little push.

This is a very interesting thread. I hope that we eventually get a definitive answer.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds good, but I'm having some trouble (can't really put my finger on it, it's just a bad feeling) giving my full agreement.

In the words of the great, esteemed Forum member, Freddy ...



I guess that I need a little push.

This is a very interesting thread. I hope that we eventually get a definitive answer.

It appears that this element of a throw-in is an omission in the verbiage, that allows a loophole. That is, since there is technically no "spot", when a thrower has the opportunity to run the endline, then he/she can't be penalized for "one foot not being on or over the 'spot' when the ball is released."
Logic may seem to be that "one foot must still be on or over the oob area behind the endline, when the ball is released," but the lack of such a statement in the rule can be the basis for a non-violation in such a case, and the genesis of this thread.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thrower-inner A1 backs up and, running toward the endline, jumps across the endline over the court and releases a throw-in pass prior to landing on the floor inbounds.

On a designated spot throw-in the illegality of this "long jumper" seems clear because of 7-6-3 ("...shall not leave the designated throw-in spot until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass") and 4-42-6 NOTE ("...must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released). The throw-in spot exists only in out of bounds area, according to 4-42-2 ("...a method of putting the ball in play from out of bounds").

QUESTION: What rulebook citation, if any, exists that prohibits "long jumper" A1 from doing this on a throw-in after a made or awarded basket, when the designated throw-in spot is not relevant?

Originally Posted by bballref3966

No violation. He was OOB when he released the ball. (9-2-10 Note)

The thrower has no depth limitation on a throw-in. As long as he stays within the width of designated spot, your scenario is not illegal.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The post did point out that you were wrong in your assumption that it was illegal on a designated spot throw-in.

As for a throw-in after a made basket, there is no restriction on the throw-in breaking the plane on a throw-in. So it doesn't matter whether ir is a spot throw-in or after a made basket. As long as they release the throw before they touch inbounds.

Originally Posted by Freddy

I'm happy to call the long-jumper "legal" on a designated spot throw-in, except for this one requirement, expressed in two places, that sticks in my mind:
"The thrower must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released" (4-42-6 NOTE). And, "The thrower shall not leave the designated throw-in spot until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass" (7-6-3 and 9-2-1). The phrase "You are where you were 'til you get where you're going" seems not to apply when the above requirement restricts it, with the designated spot, of course, not extending past the boundary line.
The NOTE after 9-2-10 ("The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she doesn not touch the inbounds area..." doesn't, I'm thinking, dismiss the above requirement, either.
Agree?

Important to me cuz "Throw-Ins" is the topic of our next pre-season rules meeting.

Thanx for your responses, the ones that dwell on what's in the book.

The correct RULING for the situation in the OP is that it is a Throw-in Violation. Why? The governing rules citations are NFHS R4-S42-A6 Note and R7-S6-A3. NFHS R4-S42-A2 and R9-S2-A10 are not relevant to this play. Furthermore, it would be a Throw-in Violation regardless whether it was a Designated Spot Throw-in or a Throw-in anywhere along the End Line after a score.

MTD, Sr.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The correct RULING for the situation in the OP is that it is a Throw-in Violation. Why? The governing rules citations are NFHS R4-S42-A6 Note and R7-S6-A3. NFHS R4-S42-A2 and R9-S2-A10 are not relevant to this play. Furthermore, it would be a Throw-in Violation regardless whether it was a Designated Spot Throw-in or a Throw-in anywhere along the End Line after a score. MTD, Sr.

By your assessment of relevant rules, would you deem it correct to say that on a throw-in the thrower must "have something out and nothing in", to use a phrase? I'd like to be able to say that. But I'm not quite there yet.......

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

By your assessment of relevant rules, would you deem it correct to say that on a throw-in the thrower must "have something out and nothing in", to use a phrase? I'd like to be able to say that. But I'm not quite there yet.......

Just quote the rule. Something on or over the spot and the spot is out of bounds.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Freddy

By your assessment of relevant rules, would you deem it correct to say that on a throw-in the thrower must "have something out and nothing in", to use a phrase? I'd like to be able to say that. But I'm not quite there yet.......

Freddy:

I would prefer to use the following phrase to describe the violation: "Everything out and nothing in or over the throw-in spot."


I would also like to add:

1) There are two types of throw-in spots and they are defined by the width of the spot: a) Designated Throw-in Spot (three feet wide). b) A throw-in after a successful FG, FT, or awarded points (the width of the basketball court: behind the End Line between the Side Lines). The depth of both (a) and (b) are the same.

2) The throw-in rules apply equally to both (a) and (b).

3) NFHS R4-S46-A2 NOTE is the governing rule in either (a) or (b).

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

9-2-10 Note can be read as allowing the player to jump over the court, as long as the ball is released before the court (or anyone on the court) is touched.