Saving the ball to yourself?

[hzsa83]

I've tried looking for this question here and haven't found it. If it has been addressed earlier, my apologies for the double post.

The scenario is this: A ball is going out of bounds, a player chases the ball down, jumps in the air over the out of bounds line and throws the ball legally back into play. This is something we see all the time on all levels of basketball (i.e. player jumping into the crowd to save the ball). However, the thing i'm unclear about in this instance is whether that player who saved the ball is allowed to be the first to touch it after he throws it back in bounds i.e. saving the ball to himself?

I'd imagine no since in the act of saving the ball he is actually throwing a pass, and as everyone knows if you are the first person to touch the ball after throwing a pass you have committed a travel. I've tried looking for examples of it happening and haven't had any luck. Any insight regarding a ref's interpretation of this scenario will be greatly appreciated.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

I've tried looking for this question here and haven't found it. If it has been addressed earlier, my apologies for the double post.

The scenario is this: A ball is going out of bounds, a player chases the ball down, jumps in the air over the out of bounds line and throws the ball legally back into play. This is something we see all the time on all levels of basketball (i.e. player jumping into the crowd to save the ball). However, the thing i'm unclear about in this instance is whether that player who saved the ball is allowed to be the first to touch it after he throws it back in bounds i.e. saving the ball to himself?

I'd imagine no since in the act of saving the ball he is actually throwing a pass, and as everyone knows if you are the first person to touch the ball after throwing a pass you have committed a travel. I've tried looking for examples of it happening and haven't had any luck. Any insight regarding a ref's interpretation of this scenario will be greatly appreciated.

The scenario is covered in the Case Book, 7.1.1 D, and is legal. The controlled toss is considered the start of a dribble.

[hzsa83]

Cool, thanks for the quick reply!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

The scenario is covered in the Case Book, 7.1.1 D, and is legal.

7.1.1 SITUATION D: A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a
boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court.
A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning
inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up
the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble. RULING: Legal in
(a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes
the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is
an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5; 4-15-6d; 4-35; 9-5)

Also, from the List O' Misunderstood Rules:

If a player's momentum carries him or her off the court, he or she can be the first player to touch the ball after returning inbounds. That player must not have left the court voluntarily and must immediately return inbounds. That player must have something in and nothing out. It is not necessary to have both feet back inbounds. It is a violation for a player to intentionally leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

[TheManiacs SA85]

The issue is if you dribbled before and then picked it up with both hands and then threw the ball to the floor, you would not be allowed to retrieve it b/c it would be a double dribble. If you didn't picked it up with both hands than it is legal play.

[Raymond]

Going OOBs and returning will have no effect on the legality in this play. All that matters is whether any of the actions constitute an illegal dribble.

Just pretend A1 was standing in the middle of the free throw lane and decided to jump and "save" ball from reaching the 3-point line and rule accordingly.

[hzsa83]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Going OOBs and returning will have no effect on the legality in this play. All that matters is whether any of the actions constitute an illegal dribble.

Just pretend A1 was standing in the middle of the free throw lane and decided to jump and "save" ball from reaching the 3-point line and rule accordingly.

To me it wasn't so much that he was going out of bounds, it was more of the fact that by saving the ball, i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble and that's why i thought it was a travel

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

To me it wasn't so much that he was going out of bounds, it was more of the fact that by saving the ball, i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble and that's why i thought it was a travel

I understand, but this question gets asked every year, so the quickest way to a proper ruling is to first eliminate any OOB considerations so that only the applicable rules are put in play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble

Until the ball is touched by someone (in this and similar situations), it can be either a pass or a dribble. So, your initial premise that "it's a travel to recover (an attempted) pass" is incorrect.

[hzsa83]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Until the ball is touched by someone (in this and similar situations), it can be either a pass or a dribble. So, your initial premise that "it's a travel to recover (an attempted) pass" is incorrect.

My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

Where I got it wrong was thinking that an act of saving the ball from going out of bounds is exclusively deemed a pass, when in fact the case book says that it can also be deemed to be a start of a dribble.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

To me it wasn't so much that he was going out of bounds, it was more of the fact that by saving the ball, i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble and that's why i thought it was a travel

Would you "interpret it" as a pass if said player tipped a rebound similarly (and no OOB line was in question) and then recovered the tipped bouncing ball?

Same here. Not illegal.

[hzsa83]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Would you "interpret it" as a pass if said player tipped a rebound similarly (and no OOB line was in question) and then recovered the tipped bouncing ball?

Same here. Not illegal.

When you present it that way, it adds about 10 shades of gray to something i thought was black and white. Just makes me respect the officiating profession that much more. The tipping the ball while rebounding scenario is a little more clearcut in my mind since a guy tipping the ball while jostling for the rebound doesn't appear to have possession and any batting of the ball can hardly be deemed a pass, so hence - no travel. i look at that kind of in the same way where fumbling of the ball is not deemed a dribble and hence why a player is not called for travel in that case.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

I'd imagine no since in the act of saving the ball he is actually throwing a pass, and as everyone knows if you are the first person to touch the ball after throwing a pass you have committed a travel.

I think you'll find that what "everyone knows" is quite often just not true, especially when discussing the rules of popular sports.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

I'd imagine no since in the act of saving the ball he is actually throwing a pass, and as everyone knows if you are the first person to touch the ball after throwing a pass you have committed a travel.

Everyone would be wrong!

Originally Posted by hzsa83

Hahah with the way you formulate the quesiton, i can guess what the answer will be :$.. after 20 plus years of playing basketball which included high school varsity, I honest to God had no idea this was NOT a travel. In fact, I thought it was one of the basic rules of basketball that you could not be the first to touch your own pass!

Then this will probably blow your mind. YOU CAN'T TRAVEL UNLESS YOU ARE HOLDING THE BALL.*

The issue here is that you don't know the definition of a pass. A pass is throwing or batting the ball to a teammate. So when a player throws the ball, it's a pass if next touched by another player. It's a dribble if touched by the player who threw or batted the ball.

Most people who have played or watched basketball all their lives think they know the rules but actually have many misconceptions and believe many of the rule myths that most any official knows aren't true. Stick around and you'll pick up some things.


(*A player who is kneeling/sitting on the floor, travels if he places the ball on the floor, stands and picks it up. This is the only exception to the statement above and that's because it's circumventing the rule.)