The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 09:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6
Saving the ball to yourself?

I've tried looking for this question here and haven't found it. If it has been addressed earlier, my apologies for the double post.

The scenario is this: A ball is going out of bounds, a player chases the ball down, jumps in the air over the out of bounds line and throws the ball legally back into play. This is something we see all the time on all levels of basketball (i.e. player jumping into the crowd to save the ball). However, the thing i'm unclear about in this instance is whether that player who saved the ball is allowed to be the first to touch it after he throws it back in bounds i.e. saving the ball to himself?

I'd imagine no since in the act of saving the ball he is actually throwing a pass, and as everyone knows if you are the first person to touch the ball after throwing a pass you have committed a travel. I've tried looking for examples of it happening and haven't had any luck. Any insight regarding a ref's interpretation of this scenario will be greatly appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 09:40am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 782
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
I've tried looking for this question here and haven't found it. If it has been addressed earlier, my apologies for the double post.

The scenario is this: A ball is going out of bounds, a player chases the ball down, jumps in the air over the out of bounds line and throws the ball legally back into play. This is something we see all the time on all levels of basketball (i.e. player jumping into the crowd to save the ball). However, the thing i'm unclear about in this instance is whether that player who saved the ball is allowed to be the first to touch it after he throws it back in bounds i.e. saving the ball to himself?

I'd imagine no since in the act of saving the ball he is actually throwing a pass, and as everyone knows if you are the first person to touch the ball after throwing a pass you have committed a travel. I've tried looking for examples of it happening and haven't had any luck. Any insight regarding a ref's interpretation of this scenario will be greatly appreciated.
The scenario is covered in the Case Book, 7.1.1 D, and is legal. The controlled toss is considered the start of a dribble.
__________________
To be good at a sport, one must be smart enough to play the game -- and dumb enough to think that it's important . . .
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2
The issue is if you dribbled before and then picked it up with both hands and then threw the ball to the floor, you would not be allowed to retrieve it b/c it would be a double dribble. If you didn't picked it up with both hands than it is legal play.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6
Cool, thanks for the quick reply!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:06am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Going OOBs and returning will have no effect on the legality in this play. All that matters is whether any of the actions constitute an illegal dribble.

Just pretend A1 was standing in the middle of the free throw lane and decided to jump and "save" ball from reaching the 3-point line and rule accordingly.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 10:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Going OOBs and returning will have no effect on the legality in this play. All that matters is whether any of the actions constitute an illegal dribble.

Just pretend A1 was standing in the middle of the free throw lane and decided to jump and "save" ball from reaching the 3-point line and rule accordingly.
To me it wasn't so much that he was going out of bounds, it was more of the fact that by saving the ball, i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble and that's why i thought it was a travel
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 01:01pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
I'd imagine no since in the act of saving the ball he is actually throwing a pass, and as everyone knows if you are the first person to touch the ball after throwing a pass you have committed a travel.
I think you'll find that what "everyone knows" is quite often just not true, especially when discussing the rules of popular sports.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 01:24pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
To me it wasn't so much that he was going out of bounds, it was more of the fact that by saving the ball, i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble and that's why i thought it was a travel
I understand, but this question gets asked every year, so the quickest way to a proper ruling is to first eliminate any OOB considerations so that only the applicable rules are put in play.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Wed Aug 27, 2014 at 02:00pm.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 02:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble
Until the ball is touched by someone (in this and similar situations), it can be either a pass or a dribble. So, your initial premise that "it's a travel to recover (an attempted) pass" is incorrect.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
To me it wasn't so much that he was going out of bounds, it was more of the fact that by saving the ball, i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble and that's why i thought it was a travel
Would you "interpret it" as a pass if said player tipped a rebound similarly (and no OOB line was in question) and then recovered the tipped bouncing ball?

Same here. Not illegal.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Until the ball is touched by someone (in this and similar situations), it can be either a pass or a dribble. So, your initial premise that "it's a travel to recover (an attempted) pass" is incorrect.
My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

Where I got it wrong was thinking that an act of saving the ball from going out of bounds is exclusively deemed a pass, when in fact the case book says that it can also be deemed to be a start of a dribble.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:36pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

Where I got it wrong was thinking that an act of saving the ball from going out of bounds is exclusively deemed a pass, when in fact the case book says that it can also be deemed to be a start of a dribble.
We're telling you that it is an incorrect premise. If you have a rule book, you'll search forever to find that rule because it's not there. If you don't have one, you'll search slightly longer since we'll have to add the time it takes you to get one.

Let me ask.

A1 catches a pass from a teammate (let's call him A2). He then throws the ball towards another teammate (A3) in an attempt to pass the ball. A3 doesn't see it coming, so A1 runs over and retrieves the ball after it bounces before it goes out of bounds.

You think this is a travel?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!
Play: A1 is holding the ball, and has not dribbled. A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 (and A1 does not lift the pivot foot in the process). A2 is not expecting the pass and cuts away from the pass. A2 runs and recovers the ball after it has bounced.

Ruling: I think you are claiming this would be a violation. It is legal. A1 has now dribbled the ball, and a subsequent dribble would be illegal.

If A1 had already dribbled, the play would be illegal. If A1 lifted the pivot foot prior to releasing the ball, it would be travelling. If A1 moved the pivot foot and caught the ball prior to the ball touching the floor, it would be a violation.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Would you "interpret it" as a pass if said player tipped a rebound similarly (and no OOB line was in question) and then recovered the tipped bouncing ball?

Same here. Not illegal.
When you present it that way, it adds about 10 shades of gray to something i thought was black and white. Just makes me respect the officiating profession that much more. The tipping the ball while rebounding scenario is a little more clearcut in my mind since a guy tipping the ball while jostling for the rebound doesn't appear to have possession and any batting of the ball can hardly be deemed a pass, so hence - no travel. i look at that kind of in the same way where fumbling of the ball is not deemed a dribble and hence why a player is not called for travel in that case.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:49pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzsa83 View Post
When you present it that way, it adds about 10 shades of gray to something i thought was black and white. Just makes me respect the officiating profession that much more. The tipping the ball while rebounding scenario is a little more clearcut in my mind since a guy tipping the ball while jostling for the rebound doesn't appear to have possession and any batting of the ball can hardly be deemed a pass, so hence - no travel. i look at that kind of in the same way where fumbling of the ball is not deemed a dribble and hence why a player is not called for travel in that case.
Keep reading. I think the tip is a poor illustration here. Read bob's latest post.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
preventing the opponent from saving the ball? ysong Basketball 37 Mon Apr 06, 2009 01:30pm
saving the ball by throwing it at the ref mutantducky Basketball 38 Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:45am
saving the ball from out of bounds kevjiang Basketball 8 Fri Apr 08, 2005 01:05pm
saving ball from going out frank andrews Basketball 2 Tue Feb 01, 2005 01:21pm
saving ball to self caref Basketball 14 Wed Oct 23, 2002 12:12pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:25pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1