Saving the ball to yourself?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

i would interpret that as a pass rather than a start of a dribble

Until the ball is touched by someone (in this and similar situations), it can be either a pass or a dribble. So, your initial premise that "it's a travel to recover (an attempted) pass" is incorrect.

[hzsa83]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Until the ball is touched by someone (in this and similar situations), it can be either a pass or a dribble. So, your initial premise that "it's a travel to recover (an attempted) pass" is incorrect.

My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

Where I got it wrong was thinking that an act of saving the ball from going out of bounds is exclusively deemed a pass, when in fact the case book says that it can also be deemed to be a start of a dribble.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

Where I got it wrong was thinking that an act of saving the ball from going out of bounds is exclusively deemed a pass, when in fact the case book says that it can also be deemed to be a start of a dribble.

We're telling you that it is an incorrect premise. If you have a rule book, you'll search forever to find that rule because it's not there. If you don't have one, you'll search slightly longer since we'll have to add the time it takes you to get one.

Let me ask.

A1 catches a pass from a teammate (let's call him A2). He then throws the ball towards another teammate (A3) in an attempt to pass the ball. A3 doesn't see it coming, so A1 runs over and retrieves the ball after it bounces before it goes out of bounds.

You think this is a travel?

[hzsa83]

Originally Posted by Adam

We're telling you that it is an incorrect premise. If you have a rule book, you'll search forever to find that rule because it's not there. If you don't have one, you'll search slightly longer since we'll have to add the time it takes you to get one.

Let me ask.

A1 catches a pass from a teammate (let's call him A2). He then throws the ball towards another teammate (A3) in an attempt to pass the ball. A3 doesn't see it coming, so A1 runs over and retrieves the ball after it bounces before it goes out of bounds.

You think this is a travel?

Hahah with the way you formulate the quesiton, i can guess what the answer will be :$.. after 20 plus years of playing basketball which included high school varsity, I honest to God had no idea this was NOT a travel. In fact, I thought it was one of the basic rules of basketball that you could not be the first to touch your own pass!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

Hahah with the way you formulate the quesiton, i can guess what the answer will be :$.. after 20 plus years of playing basketball which included high school varsity, I honest to God had no idea this was NOT a travel. In fact, I thought it was one of the basic rules of basketball that you could not be the first to touch your own pass!

Let me just answer that by saying if you release the ball and are the first to touch it ... you didn't pass it at all. I guess it's true that you can't be the first to touch your own pass ... because if you are it wasn't a pass.

Also, merely directing a ball that you don't have control of isn't anything at all (like the tip, or the save from OOB).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

Hahah with the way you formulate the quesiton, i can guess what the answer will be :$.. after 20 plus years of playing basketball which included high school varsity, I honest to God had no idea this was NOT a travel. In fact, I thought it was one of the basic rules of basketball that you could not be the first to touch your own pass!

And this is why we cannot listen to the public about rules. A lot of people watch sports and think because they played or watched they understand what the rules state. That is clearly not the case and why becoming an official you have to relearn the rules from a different prism. Do not feel bad, you and many of us had to go through the same epiphany.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

Play: A1 is holding the ball, and has not dribbled. A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 (and A1 does not lift the pivot foot in the process). A2 is not expecting the pass and cuts away from the pass. A2 runs and recovers the ball after it has bounced.

Ruling: I think you are claiming this would be a violation. It is legal. A1 has now dribbled the ball, and a subsequent dribble would be illegal.

If A1 had already dribbled, the play would be illegal. If A1 lifted the pivot foot prior to releasing the ball, it would be travelling. If A1 moved the pivot foot and caught the ball prior to the ball touching the floor, it would be a violation.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Play: A1 is holding the ball, and has not dribbled. A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 (and A1 does not lift the pivot foot in the process). A2 is not expecting the pass and cuts away from the pass. A2 runs and recovers the ball after it has bounced.

Ruling: I think you are claiming this would be a violation. It is legal. A1 has now dribbled the ball, and a subsequent dribble would be illegal.

If A1 had already dribbled, the play would be illegal. If A1 lifted the pivot foot prior to releasing the ball, it would be travelling. If A1 moved the pivot foot and caught the ball prior to the ball touching the floor, it would be a violation.

I would like to order a copy of "Rules of Basketball Explained by Bob."

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Play: A1 is holding the ball, and has not dribbled. A1 attempts to pass the ball to A2 (and A1 does not lift the pivot foot in the process). A2 is not expecting the pass and cuts away from the pass. A2 runs and recovers the ball after it has bounced.

Ruling: I think you are claiming this would be a violation. It is legal. A1 has now dribbled the ball, and a subsequent dribble would be illegal.

A1 could also hustle over there and just keep dribbling the dribble he started.

[APG]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

.

Assuming you're strictly speaking NFHS/NCAA rules, by very definition of a pass as spelled out in rule 4, it's impossible to pass the ball to oneself.

The NBA handles this play differently, depending on the actions of the player saving the ball, which is probably where confusion comes from.

[TheManiacs SA85]

Originally Posted by hzsa83

My premise that "it's a travel to recover an attempted pass" was not incorrect - because that is in fact a travel!

Where I got it wrong was thinking that an act of saving the ball from going out of bounds is exclusively deemed a pass, when in fact the case book says that it can also be deemed to be a start of a dribble.

Why would you think that it is exlusively deemed a pass. A player that receives pass can be the one that is saving the ball going OOB or as said start of a dribble.
On this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmeGerX7-eY
from 2:48 - 2:53 you can see how player caches the ball, goes OOB w/o the ball and then comes and picks the ball first. And the referee didn't call anything.

[SNIPERBBB]

There are only two plays where it is illegal to touch the ball again after moving and is considered travelling
4.44.3 SITUATION D:

(a) A1 tosses the ball from one hand to the other while keeping his/her pivot foot in contact with the floor; or (b) A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it.

RULING: Legal in (a), but a traveling violation in (b). In (b), since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is illegal. (9-4)

4.44.5 SITUATION B:

A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without *violating?

RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is *traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

There are only two plays where it is illegal to touch the ball again after moving and is considered travelling
4.44.3 SITUATION D:

(a) A1 tosses the ball from one hand to the other while keeping his/her pivot foot in contact with the floor; or (b) A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it.

RULING: Legal in (a), but a traveling violation in (b). In (b), since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is illegal. (9-4)

4.44.5 SITUATION B:

A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without *violating?

RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is *traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

1 more, at least.

A1, without having previously dribbled, lifts his pivot foot before throwing the ball towards A2. A2 does not see the ball coming and leaves the area. A1 runs and is the first to touch the ball after it has bounced one or more times. This is a travel for having lifted the pivot foot prior to starting his dribble. (I'd like to see this changed to an illegal dribble.)