Transitioning 3-man to 2-man crew.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I've searched through my old emails and I can't find the email that I'm remembering... so I must back-track a bit from my assertion that my association stated this directly (maybe it was verbally at a meeting instead of an email or from one of my non-association assignors).

But the instruction that I recall was simply to not tell players to go get the ball (looks lazy and it is not their job). 99% of the time, the ball makes it's way back to the official in a reasonable amount of time. In a case where the ball ends up at the other end of the court and no player is nearby to pick it up, the game is now being held up. It would be inappropriate for the officials to direct one of the players to go chase after it. In that case, the nearest official should jog over and get it.

But I did not mean to suggest that every time the ball goes out of bounds, there should be an official running right after it and turning his back to the players.

For what it's worth, I did find the email I was thinking of and it was from our Scholastic commissioner/assigner to all officials based on his observations from the first couple weeks of the season:

"There is no NFHS rule or Association policy that states players are supposed to retrieve a loose ball. It is the responsibility of a member of the crew to retrieve the ball while the other member/s of crew observe the players. Forcing players to retrieve the ball gives the appearance we are lazy or out of shape."

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

For what it's worth, I did find the email I was thinking of and it was from our Scholastic commissioner/assigner to all officials based on his observations from the first couple weeks of the season:

"There is no NFHS rule or Association policy that states players are supposed to retrieve a loose ball. It is the responsibility of a member of the crew to retrieve the ball while the other member/s of crew observe the players. Forcing players to retrieve the ball gives the appearance we are lazy or out of shape."

This has to be the only time I've heard of any group - HS or NCAA - telling its officials to retrieve a ball that goes OOB and leave their partner(s) to deal with the players. I would have asked those in charge what's better in a two-person game: two sets of eyes on nine players or one set of eyes on ten players?

[HokiePaul]

I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that is interesting that the feedback seems to be that this is unusual or even a bad idea. To me, it seems like a reasonable policy.

Common sense dictates that the official is not going to turn his back and leave the players if there is any concern about an altercation or unsporting activity. All the officials would deal with that situation before thinking about the ball -- no different than leaving to report a foul.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I didn't think anything of it at the time, but that is interesting that the feedback seems to be that this is unusual or even a bad idea. To me, it seems like a reasonable policy.

Common sense dictates that the official is not going to turn his back and leave the players if there is any concern about an altercation or unsporting activity. All the officials would deal with that situation before thinking about the ball -- no different than leaving to report a foul.

What I find unusual about it is that it's no more the official's job to chase basketballs than it is the players. I'm stunned that an assigner would put that on the officials, actually.

[Kansas Ref]

Aside from "retrieving ball" issues, are any of you finding that you are more lenient towards the coaches in terms of "interacting with them"---in this summer youth league all the coaches are volunteers and although they are clearly enthusiastic and dedicated, I do find them to be less--shall we say--refined than your garden variety NFHS-type of coach.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Aside from "retrieving ball" issues, are any of you finding that you are more lenient towards the coaches in terms of "interacting with them"---in this summer youth league all the coaches are volunteers and although they are clearly enthusiastic and dedicated, I do find them to be less--shall we say--refined than your garden variety NFHS-type of coach.

The opposite, actually. I've found through my experience that being more lenient actually leads to more problems. Make your expectations clear, in a professional manner, and follow through.

[OrStBballRef]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Aside from "retrieving ball" issues, are any of you finding that you are more lenient towards the coaches in terms of "interacting with them"---in this summer youth league all the coaches are volunteers and although they are clearly enthusiastic and dedicated, I do find them to be less--shall we say--refined than your garden variety NFHS-type of coach.

Nope...in fact I'm a little stricter during summer ball with regards to conduct from the coaches than I am during the season.

I don't do a whole lot of 'interacting' with coaches during the season anyway, but I hold a tighter line on the conduct during the summer. Simply put if I have to drive 30-40 minutes away from my home to ref 3-4 games for $25 a game that, for me anyway, is not enough to be yelled at like we're in the middle of a late-season game with playoff implications.

This is summer ball. No one 20 years from now is going to care who won a particular summer league tournament or game. I'll hustle down the court like I always do, but for $25 I'm not taking a whole lot of grief from the benches. Not worth it for me....

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Aside from "retrieving ball" issues, are any of you finding that you are more lenient towards the coaches in terms of "interacting with them"---in this summer youth league all the coaches are volunteers and although they are clearly enthusiastic and dedicated, I do find them to be less--shall we say--refined than your garden variety NFHS-type of coach.

I don't know about leniency, but I am less inclinded to explain my reason for a call to a summer league/youth league coach who is a volunteer.

With summer league coaches, I use one of the three following phrases about 95% of the time to respond to a coach:

1) I'll continue to watch for it coach.
2) Coach, that wasn't a foul/violation.
3) Coach, that's enough.

Originally Posted by Rich

What I find unusual about it is that it's no more the official's job to chase basketballs than it is the players. I'm stunned that an assigner would put that on the officials, actually.

Maybe they've been watching too much NBA, where the officials do chase the ball for multi-millionaire athletes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Maybe they've been watching too much NBA, where the officials do chase the ball for multi-millionaire athletes.

What? Those fans sitting in the thousand dollar courtside seats aren't allowed to keep the balls that end up in their laps?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Maybe they've been watching too much NBA, where the officials do chase the ball for multi-millionaire athletes.

Nobody chases anything in the NBA. The ball ends up back on the court.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

Nobody chases anything in the NBA. The ball ends up back on the court.

It's like sorcery.

Originally Posted by Rich

Nobody chases anything in the NBA. The ball ends up back on the court.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic. NBA refs often chase the ball down to speed up play. Happens a couple times a game.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Maybe they've been watching too much NBA, where the officials do chase the ball for multi-millionaire athletes.

cdfu!