New rules on contact / hand-checking

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I kept the new rule in my during camp last weekend. The camp director noted I was calling hand-checks at times that were probably pushes. Still, there were times I passed on hand checks when the dribbler was beating his defender. Even if the defender had two hands on the dribbler, if RSBQ isn't compromised, I don't see the point of a whistle here.

As I've read it, the rule doesn't really allow to take advantage/disadvantage into account. It comes across as being automatic, which as we know, isn't always effective.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

10-6-12 New
The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler:
a. Placing two hands on the player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.
Rationale: Rather than continuing to make hand-checking a point of emphasis year after year, simply add a brand new rule that requires a personal foul be called any time this type of contact occurs on a player holding or dribbling the ball outside of the lane area. The NFHS game needs this type of illegal contact on the perimeter ball handlers and dribblers eliminated.

Bainsey:

My rule of thumb is: a) one hand is a hand check, and b) two hands is a push. That said, if I were evaluating you I would give you my rule of thumb but not ding you. I would ding you if a defender put two hands on the ball handler and you did not call a foul.


Billy:

What I find adorable about NFHS R10-S6-A12 is that 2014-15 will be my 44th year officiating and everything listed in R10-S6-A12 has always been a foul in both NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's because basketball is a "non-contact" sport.

With apologies to Mel Brooks: "Rules! I don't need no stinking rules to call a personal foul for illegal contact!"

MTD, Sr.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I kept the new rule in my during camp last weekend. The camp director noted I was calling hand-checks at times that were probably pushes.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bainsey:

My rule of thumb is: a) one hand is a hand check, and b) two hands is a push. That said, if I were evaluating you I would give you my rule of thumb but not ding you. I would ding you if a defender put two hands on the ball handler and you did not call a foul.

The "hand-check" foul has only been in the books for a few years. Why? All hand checks are also either a push or illegal use of hands or both. The only actual difference is in that each communicates a slightly different thing.

The hand check foul was only added because those types of fouls were not getting called enough. After still not being called enough the NFHS has now added explicit wording. They really want it called.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I would ding you if a defender put two hands on the ball handler and you did not call a foul.

Originally Posted by Rich

I still think this is one where you want to have a slow whistle.

Mark, I hope you would mean that if the defender weren't already beaten. With all due respect, I have to agree with Rich here. If you have two hands on a ball handler in front of you, or if the handler is in the shooting act, I can understand a whistle. However, if the ball-handler is driving, and RSBQ is not compromised, doesn't a whistle actually benefit the defense (foul count notwithstanding)?

I'm not sure there are enough quality officials at the High School level (myself included) to properly enforce these hand checking rules.

Even the college guys had preseason games with 60-70 fouls and some would argue those guidelines trailed off during conference play and the NCAA tournament (UK-Louisville being one shining example).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm not sure there are enough quality officials at the High School level (myself included) to properly enforce these hand checking rules.

Even the college guys had preseason games with 60-70 fouls and some would argue those guidelines trailed off during conference play and the NCAA tournament (UK-Louisville being one shining example).

They're easy to enforce. They're pretty much absolutes. One just has to have the stones and the backing to enforce them.

Originally Posted by Rich

They're easy to enforce. They're pretty much absolutes. One just has to have the stones and the backing to enforce them.

Exactly, that's my fear. We'll see how it goes once the season starts. If anything these rule changes do give us the ammunition -- we just need to step up and take care of business.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

They're easy to enforce. They're pretty much absolutes. One just has to have the stones and the backing to enforce them.

For some, this will be the sticking point.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Mark, I hope you would mean that if the defender weren't already beaten. With all due respect, I have to agree with Rich here. If you have two hands on a ball handler in front of you, or if the handler is in the shooting act, I can understand a whistle. However, if the ball-handler is driving, and RSBQ is not compromised, doesn't a whistle actually benefit the defense (foul count notwithstanding)?

I was instructed to especially get the two hands when the offense has beaten the defense, while outside the lane area. Our state association also wants the NFHS to define the lane area. I believe it is 3 feet either side of the lane lines, at least that is what we were told.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I was instructed to especially get the two hands when the offense has beaten the defense, while outside the lane area. Our state association also wants the NFHS to define the lane area. I believe it is 3 feet either side of the lane lines, at least that is what we were told.

Here's what it is in NCAA:





Of course, the NFHS seems to have done this without defining the lane area in the rule book (yet) but I'd imagine it would be something similar to this.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Billy:

What I find adorable about NFHS R10-S6-A12 is that 2014-15 will be my 44th year officiating and everything listed in R10-S6-A12 has always been a foul in both NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's because basketball is a "non-contact" sport.

With apologies to Mel Brooks: "Rules! I don't need no stinking rules to call a personal foul for illegal contact!"

MTD, Sr.

Exactly what I was told two weeks ago at camp. Coaches were complaining about it. A clinician told him that it has always been in the rule book. We as officials weren't calling it consistently, or in some cases at all. It was then addressed with the RSBQ. Still wasn't getting done, so now it is an automatic.

[Kansas Ref]

Well, this is a fine thread about "hand-checking". In pre-game me and partner talk about how to recognize it, which is usually occuring when in Trail position and we're observing the guards bring ball up under close defensive pressure or on the wing area when SF is jab-stepping. Ball-handler is making all manner of spin moves, between leg dribbles, and crossover dribbles to evade defender. We notice that when defender was shuffling defensive footwork they would extend a hand to put on dribbler's hip then quickly take it off. Then, during the half-time, me and partner would lament that we missed those calls, and also talke about/self-evaluate and ask selves "did that teeny bit of contact impede dribbler?", then at second half, we'd try to make the adjustment calls and try to strike a balance. I'd say we then had 2 or 3 more such calls.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Well, this is a fine thread about "hand-checking". In pre-game me and partner talk about how to recognize it, which is usually occuring when in Trail position and we're observing the guards bring ball up under close defensive pressure or on the wing area when SF is jab-stepping. Ball-handler is making all manner of spin moves, between leg dribbles, and crossover dribbles to evade defender. We notice that when defender was shuffling defensive footwork they would extend a hand to put on dribbler's hip then quickly take it off. Then, during the half-time, me and partner would lament that we missed those calls, and also talke about/self-evaluate and ask selves "did that teeny bit of contact impede dribbler?", then at second half, we'd try to make the adjustment calls and try to strike a balance. I'd say we then had 2 or 3 more such calls.

Welcome to the Board Kansas. From where do you hail in the Jay Hawk state? My mother was a native of Linwood and I was born in Lawrence.

MTD, Sr.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Welcome to the Board Kansas. From where do you hail in the Jay Hawk state? My mother was a native of Linwood and I was born in Lawrence.

MTD, Sr.

*OK, I know of that area and of Lawrence. I've reffed games in Lawrence school system and at KU adult leagues games--but not yet any Big 12 games.
I'm located out of Kansas City and travel up to 50 miles N, S, E, W of my base. Small towns in the rural counties Ive done their school system (KSHAA) and to my surprise--in some of those small towns (salina, lindsborg, clay center, alba, wamego, junction city, cherokee creek) there are talented hoopsters there---always a 'culture shock" for me when I show up at a small town school and parking lot has deer racks and fishing rods in pickup trucks....but in the gym they are really hooping! That's what I love about basketball--transcendent of culture, socioeconomics, etc factors--just people who like to hoop it up.

[JRutledge]

All I will say is that I have called it every summer league and every shootout this summer. Yes, there has been some blowback, but they get over it. It is just like last year where my state told everyone that these things needed to be called. The players and coaches adjusted or they just kept getting fouls called on them.

Peace