Double Foul (video)

[JetMetFan]

Thoughts? Observations? Likes? Dislikes?

I think the initial illegal contact is by white 23. Whose primary is this under NCAA-W? Does Lead look at the dribbler and Trail look at the post? I would hope Lead would have a handle on this play.

PS: Where'd you get this video JetMet?

[Camron Rust]

I'm OK with the double. While it seems white might the primary instigator at first glance, black is keeping her from getting close with a straight-arm.

[JRutledge]

It looks like the foul is on the black player who is pushing off and the white player reacts.

I am not a fan of double fouls, get the first foul. Clearly both situations happen at different times.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a fan of double fouls.

... nor am I. When I do call them, which is very seldom, I tend to call them early in the season, and early in the game. I will usually call at least one in my preseason scrimmages, just to keep the knuckleheads in check as they try to impress the coach with their physical prowess trying to make the first string.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I think the initial illegal contact is by white 23. Whose primary is this under NCAA-W? Does Lead look at the dribbler and Trail look at the post? I would hope Lead would have a handle on this play.

Everything is going on in the L's primary. He focused on the BH/dribbler after the throw-in so the T can pick that up. However, I think I would've been inclined to look at the post play first from the L and let the T deal with the BH/dribbler. The post was where the real action was taking place.

Originally Posted by AremRed

PS: Where'd you get this video JetMet?

The internet is a wonderful thing I'm that geek who searches for NCAA-W's games during - and after - the season on YouTube so I can see more plays. It definitely helped me this past season.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It looks like the foul is on the black player who is pushing off and the white player reacts.

I am not a fan of double fouls, get the first foul. Clearly both situations happen at different times.

My thoughts as well. It's not easy to see from the angle but I have the first foul on the offensive post player. In one of the NCAA-W breakout videos this past season D. Williamson broke down a play like this. Black #42 is essentially setting a screen. She's trying to keep White #23 from getting to a desired spot and she does it by clamping down on White #23's right arm.

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Whose primary is this under NCAA-W?

L's primary goes from the endline to the FT line extended and from the middle of the lane all the way out to the sideline. So both the dribbler and the post players are in L's primary. T or C would have secondary coverage on the post players since L will be looking primarily at the dribbler matchup.

[Rob1968]

2nd Overtime, 3:31 to go, 2 point game, Home leading.

Whistle -- thought: Is it easier to sell/explain the dbl foul, than a foul on White for holding, or a foul on Black for holding off the defender?
With the dbl foul, it just goes to a throw-in. Maybe, a no-call accomplishes the same thing, since the play seemed to progress with no overwhelming need for the whistle.

[Matt S.]

You have to have something here; was just at an NCAA-W camp yesterday, and Jon Levinson was a clinician--said that post play HAS to be cleaned up this season or we're not going to like what could come with rule changes next year...

As for the call itself, get the first foul!

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

2nd Overtime, 3:31 to go, 2 point game, Home leading.

Whistle -- thought: Is it easier to sell/explain the dbl foul, than a foul on White for holding, or a foul on Black for holding off the defender?

I don't know what the time or score have to do with it, but I could be easily sold either way. I like "getting the first" too, but if the second clearly happens quickly, you have to get that one, too.

Is the NCAA double-foul signal the same as NFHS? If so, it would have been less confusing for everyone had the official gotten those fists out quickly. Then, all would have known sooner the fouls were "offsetting."

(Cringe. I swear, someday I'm going to look into spearheading an online rules clinic for announcers.)

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Is the NCAA double-foul signal the same as NFHS?

Yes, the signal is the same.

Originally Posted by bainsey

I don't know what the time or score have to do with it...

Agreed

Originally Posted by bainsey

I like "getting the first" too, but if the second clearly happens quickly, you have to get that one, too.

Not necessarily. If you're positive one happened before the other, call the first one. If the coach who ends up on the short ends asks what happened, explain his/her player committed a foul first.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If so, it would have been less confusing for everyone had the official gotten those fists out quickly. Then, all would have known sooner the fouls were "offsetting."

It looks to me like she had the DF signal up right after her initial signal, right around :10 on the video. Not sure how much sooner she could have gotten it out there.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Maineac

It looks to me like she had the DF signal up right after her initial signal, right around :10 on the video. Not sure how much sooner she could have gotten it out there.

Good catch. She did it so quickly, I didn't even notice, as my eyes were still on the play. You know the slow, methodical signals we're required to do in these parts.

[BryanV21]

It's like when I was an umpire and we'd roll our eyes whenever the phrase "tie goes to the runner" was said (usually by a fan/parent). It's never a tie. See what came first and make the appropriate call.

I'm not saying you can't have a double foul, but chances are one came before the other. I think a lot of refs use the double foul call as a cop-out, because they weren't paying close enough attention.

Originally Posted by bainsey

Iit would have been less confusing for everyone had the official gotten those fists out quickly. Then, all would have known sooner the fouls were "offsetting."

Originally Posted by bainsey

She did it so quickly, I didn't even notice, as my eyes were still on the play.

Are you going to change your tune and say she did the signal too quickly now??