Sign of things to come

[APG]

Originally Posted by Adam

I believe the rule is the same on this in the NBA, but I'm not sure.

In the NBA, everyone can enter in on the release except the shooter...players on the outside included.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by APG

In the NBA, everyone can enter in on the release except the shooter...players on the outside included.

Good thing I didn't claim to be sure.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by OKREF

First summer tournament. Rule change allowing players along free throw lane to enter on release.

A1 shooting 1-1, first shot, players move in, A2 fouls B1, shot goes in. Team B is in the bonus. Clear the lanes, shoot the second, go to other end shoot 1-1.

I was part of a HS instructional camp last weekend as a court observer. On another court this situation occurred with 10 seconds remaining in a 1pt game.
The advice of the court observer: have a patient whistle. If the FT goes in, then calling the foul probably isn't necessary, unless the contact is severe. If the FT is missed, then a late whistle will likely get general acceptance.

I agree with his advice and think of this in terms of possession consequence and cleaning up rough play. There isn't any possession consequence on a made FT and only a few seconds remaining in the game probably isn't the time to be cleaning up rough play. I'm going to teach that such fouls need to be in the category of "can't ignore it."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I was part of a HS instructional camp last weekend as a court observer. On another court this situation occurred with 10 seconds remaining in a 1pt game.
The advice of the court observer: have a patient whistle. If the FT goes in, then calling the foul probably isn't necessary, unless the contact is severe. If the FT is missed, then a late whistle will likely get general acceptance.

I agree with his advice and think of this in terms of possession consequence and cleaning up rough play. There isn't any possession consequence on a made FT and only a few seconds remaining in the game probably isn't the time to be cleaning up rough play. I'm going to teach that such fouls need to be in the category of "can't ignore it."

This advice pretty much applies to any rebounding fouls. Have a patient whistle unless there is rough play that needs to be cleaned up.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This advice pretty much applies to any rebounding fouls. Have a patient whistle unless there is rough play that needs to be cleaned up.

About once a year I have a situation where I believe that a rebounding foul has occurred and I sound my whistle, to then observe, a split second later, that the foulee now has the rebound easily in his possession. I swear that I'll never be fooled like that again, but I always am.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

About once a year I have a situation where I believe that a rebounding foul has occurred and I sound my whistle, to then observe, a split second later, that the foulee now has the rebound easily in his possession. I swear that I'll never be fooled like that again, but I always am.

Sometimes, those fouls still need to be called....if only to discourage the behavior that you observed.

The game has degraded too far in the direction of not calling a foul if the player is still able to get the ball (or get by the defender, or make the shot). That can certainly be a factor, but it is taken too far. The advantage gained/lost is not always the end result but the effect how the rest of the game is played.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sometimes, those fouls still need to be called....if only to discourage the behavior that you observed.

The game has degraded too far in the direction of not calling a foul if the player is still able to get the ball (or get by the defender, or make the shot). That can certainly be a factor, but it is taken too far. The advantage gained/lost is not always the end result but the effect how the rest of the game is played.

And also the follow up play. IOW, if the player gets the ball but, due to the illegal contact, is now in a significantly less advantageous position with the ball, a foul should be called.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

And also the follow up play. IOW, if the player gets the ball but, due to the illegal contact, is now in a significantly less advantageous position with the ball, a foul should be called.

Or if it discourages him/her from trying to get the next rebound because it was too risky (rough play), that is also a foul.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Or if it discourages him/her from trying to get the next rebound because it was too risky (rough play), that is also a foul.

I'm not sure that I'm understanding you on this.

Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I'm not sure that I'm understanding you on this.

Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

I think that is what he is saying...Camron will correct me if I am wrong, but we always call it the "3 minutes later" principle. As in, if I don't call that now, what will this game be like in 3 minutes?

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

No, he's saying rough play should always be cleaned up and one of the benefits of cleaning it up is players won't be afraid to try to get rebounds because of rough play.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I think that is what he is saying...Camron will correct me if I am wrong, but we always call it the "3 minutes later" principle. As in, if I don't call that now, what will this game be like in 3 minutes?

Yep.

Originally Posted by AremRed

No, he's saying rough play should always be cleaned up and one of the benefits of cleaning it up is players won't be afraid to try to get rebounds because of rough play.

And....Yep.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I'm not sure that I'm understanding you on this.

Are you saying that a foul should be called if I judge that a player may not want to go get the next rebound because the player thinks the play that just happened is too rough?

If he is hesitant to go for a board because he is getting the crap beat of of him, yes. The fact that the right team gets the rebound is not always a reason to avoid calling the foul. It can be much of the time, but not as much as some take it. Sometimes, the contact just shouldn't be part of the game of basketball.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If he is hesitant to go for a board because he is getting the crap beat of of him, yes.

Then he shouldn't be playing basketball in the first place!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Then he shouldn't be playing basketball in the first place!

No, he shouldn't be playing football.