legal move or not?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Legal? No. Ignored if trifling? Yes.

Do you call traveling in your D1 games when a player does this very scenario when squaring up to shoot?

I am certainly not a D1 official and will not speak for what one of them will actually do, but this was addressed by John Adams a few times over the years and he feels it should be called. I have never heard him make the suggestion that it matters if there is an advantage. I would agree with you if it is not obvious or we are splitting hairs, but this is usually pretty obvious to see and should be called IMO.

Peace

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Would you let shooters catch the ball and step where ever they want to without dribbling in before shooting the ball?

As Andy Dufresne says: "How can you be so obtuse?"

[APG]

Can't say I've seen players catching the ball with BOTH feet on the floor, then jump and land with the ball at any level with any regularity.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

As Andy Dufresne says: "How can you be so obtuse?"

Were you asking me my ruling on this question?:

Originally Posted by mdray

A1 receives a pass with both feet on the floor, jumps and lands simultaneously on both feet and then releases a shot. Is this a legal move or is it a travel?

One would have to be very obtuse for not knowing the obvious answer.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Legal? No. Ignored if trifling? Yes.

"Trifling" is a soccer officiating term. I've never heard it in basketball.

Pivot foot up + pivot foot down = travel.

[Pantherdreams]

Move as described in OP = travel.

Complicating factors in games.

Player can have two feet on the floor and hop as they complete the initial catch without travelling ie. Determining when control is established.

Player can have one foot on the floor, hop onto two and shoot it without traveling. ie. Determining when control is established and if only 1 foot was on the floor making it a jump stop - but that now cannot pivot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

"Trifling" is a soccer officiating term. I've never heard it in basketball.

Pivot foot up + pivot foot down = travel.

It is more than a soccer term. It is a social term too.

Peace

Originally Posted by bainsey

"Trifling" is a soccer officiating term. I've never heard it in basketball.

Pivot foot up + pivot foot down = travel.

I guess the basketball equivalent is "incidental".

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I guess the basketball equivalent is "incidental".

I think they're mutually exclusive. "Trifiling" can and usually does involve the severity of contact, but hard contact can be "incidental." I've used "incidental" in soccer without any corrections (though that doesn't mean I'm right), but the only sport I've ever heard "trifling" in was soccer.

Just the same, this isn't even about contact. It's a about travelling, and hopping on two feet is cut and dry.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Player can have one foot on the floor, hop onto two and shoot it without traveling.

I believe that, in the play described above, said player can also legally jump off both feet to shoot the ball. N'est-ce pas?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I guess the basketball equivalent is "incidental".

By rule, there are no incidental violations.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I thought the very first post after the Thread Starting Post was the most concise and accurate post of this thread.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I thought the very first post after the Thread Starting Post was the most concise and accurate post of this thread.

MTD, Sr.

Except that it is not supported BY RULE. This is only a violation due to a Case Play ruling. I believe that is the point of the OP.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Except that it is not supported BY RULE. This is only a violation due to a Case Play ruling. I believe that is the point of the OP.

Sure it is...

ART. 1 . . . A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor, may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.

That establishes that when a foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot. it doesn't say ONLY one foot. So, if a player jumps from two feet, one foot has been lifted and the other is the pivot. You could say that the pivot is the last one to break contact with the floor (and it really will be one or the other if you look close enough). However, it doesn't really matter which was lifted first on a jump because the result is the same either way.

Then, Article 3 kicks in...

ART. 3 . . . After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sure it is...



That establishes that when a foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot. it doesn't say ONLY one foot. So, if a player jumps from two feet, one foot has been lifted and the other is the pivot. You could say that the pivot is the last one to break contact with the floor (and it really will be one or the other if you look close enough). However, it doesn't really matter which was lifted first on a jump because the result is the same either way.

Then, Article 3 kicks in...

Camron,
By your reasoning a player could never execute a legal jump stop. That's not a practical argument for basketball. Officials deem both feet of a player to either land or leave the court simultaneously quite frequently during games.
So the point is that if a player has not yet established a pivot (either by landing or jumping with both feet simultaneously), then nothing which you have posted applies.