Legal move or not?

[jhelbling]

Coach here - looking for an interpretation of rules.

I coach 11 year old team. Most runners with decent speed are stealing once they reach 1B.

If my pitcher is in set position - raises his leg straight up (no movement home or back toward rubber) - can he then twirl and throw to 2nd if the R on 1B attempts to steal?

I site the following 2 rules for this question.

(c) At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw.
Rule 8.01(c) Comment: The pitcher shall step “ahead of the throw.” A snap throw followed by the step directly toward the base is a balk.

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when
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(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

If there is a R on 1B trying to steal - can the Pitcher throw to 2B for the purpose of making a play? Also, what happens if the R on 1B bluffs his steal attempt and proceeds back to 1B? What happens if he does not steal at all?

[papablue]

As long as it's a fluid motion, F1 can lift his free leg up and continue with a step ahead of a throw to 2B. If you judge that R1 has made a valid attempt to steal 2B, then F1's move is legal (attempt to retire a runner). However, if you judge R1's move to be a feint, then F1's throw to 2B is a balk (throwing to an unoccupied base).

John

[mbyron]

The move you describe is legal, provided the runner is going, F1 makes no move to the plate, and he does not "freeze" with his leg up. Failing any of these would be a balk. Seems as if a proper pickoff move would be safer.

For coaching advice, see http://www.eteamz.com

[radwaste50]

as long as he steps and throws to first, he can spin going off the the plate for a pick off attempt.

he can throw to second but if the runner fakes it will be the judgement of the umpire, as it is in all balks, whether it was for the making of a play. If he gets deeked he may be balked.

[thumpferee]

Coach, do you play under OBR rules, or are you quoting the only rule you have available?

[jhelbling]

We play by MLB rules with exceptions for our league - basically USSSA rules.

I appreciate all your responses. I thought it would be intepreted as such - just double checking. Fact of the matter - speedy runners are going to be safe regardless - I guess it is worth a try.

[ozzy6900]

Well, Coach, it really doesn't matter what we say about your question. What matters is the level of training of your league's umpires! We may tell you that this move is legal but your on the field umpire may tell you the move is a balk. Now the only way out is to protest. Unfortunately, it is the judgment of the on the field umpire as to whether your pitcher made a move to the plate so guess what, you will loose the protest.

Why not try teaching a decent spin move to the pitchers. Even the untrained umpire will let a good spin move go. Then teach your fielders to pay attention to the runner. Above all, teach the fielders not to jump the gun and yell "He's going" every time the runner flinches. Lastly, go back to the pitchers and teach them how to throw a strike to 2nd base without sailing the ball to center field or drilling the ball into the ground!

[jhelbling]

Thanks Ozzy69,

I am well aware of how to teach a spin move/slide step and other aspects of how to hold a runner close.

Just checking my options and getting a rule interpretation.

You are right about checking with the crew first. It would be wise to go over with the crew before trying it in a game.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by jhelbling

If my pitcher is in set position - raises his leg straight up (no movement home or back toward rubber) - can he then twirl and throw to 2nd if the R on 1B attempts to steal?

When you say "twirl", I'm visualizing that you have a right-handed pitcher that is raising the non-pivot foot and doing a three-quarter turn toward his left shoulder, spinning around passed first base and throwing to second. If this is the case, I don't see how this could be accomplished without balking somewhere in there. There's going to be some motion toward home or something interpretted as a fake to first.

However, if you are talking about a pitcher (left or right-handed) doing an inside-step throw to second base that is often seen in the majors, then there's no problem with it.

Can you clarify which case you're talking about?

[jhelbling]

Speaking of the latter - where the Pitcher raises his free leg (RH) and spins to his right.