Jump Ball

[Zoochy]

The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.

Yep...met plenty of those. Just smile.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.

Is he one of those people who says "controlled tap"? Ugh

I assume that you showed him these rule:
Rule 4, Sec 12
ART. 5

Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

ART. 6

Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

How about this Case Book play:
4.12 COMMENT:

A player is in control when the player is holding or *dribbling a live ball, but team control includes passing activity. When a team secures control, that team continues to be in control until the ball is in flight on a try or tap for goal, or an opponent has secured control or the ball has become dead. This has an influence on rules such as team-control fouls, three-seconds and frontcourt/backcourt. No team is in control while the ball is dead, during a jump ball, after the ball has left the hand on a try or tap for goal, nor during the period which follows any of these acts while the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Is he one of those people who says "controlled tap"? Ugh

I assume that you showed him these rule:
Rule 4, Sec 12
ART. 5

Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

ART. 6

Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

How about this Case Book play:
4.12 COMMENT:

A player is in control when the player is holding or *dribbling a live ball, but team control includes passing activity. When a team secures control, that team continues to be in control until the ball is in flight on a try or tap for goal, or an opponent has secured control or the ball has become dead. This has an influence on rules such as team-control fouls, three-seconds and frontcourt/backcourt. No team is in control while the ball is dead, during a jump ball, after the ball has left the hand on a try or tap for goal, nor during the period which follows any of these acts while the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

I did not go that far with him. He wasn't understanding 6-3-7 or 6-3-8.
As Camron stated.... I just smiled and walked away.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Is he one of those people who says "controlled tap"? Ugh

I assume that you showed him these rule:
Rule 4, Sec 12
ART. 5

Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

ART. 6

Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

How about this Case Book play:
4.12 COMMENT:

A player is in control when the player is holding or *dribbling a live ball, but team control includes passing activity. When a team secures control, that team continues to be in control until the ball is in flight on a try or tap for goal, or an opponent has secured control or the ball has become dead. This has an influence on rules such as team-control fouls, three-seconds and frontcourt/backcourt. No team is in control while the ball is dead, during a jump ball, after the ball has left the hand on a try or tap for goal, nor during the period which follows any of these acts while the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

What does this have to do with the play and question in hand? It would seem the pertinent rules needed are only those dealing with restrictions on the jump ball...and then when they end.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by APG

What does this have to do with the play and question in hand? It would seem the pertinent rules needed are only those dealing with restrictions on the jump ball...and then when they end.

You are likely only considering that the official penalized the player for catching the jump ball.
I also considered that the official may have penalized him for either traveling or an illegal dribble. The rules above state that there is no player control while tapping a jump ball, so neither of those violations would be possible either.

[onetime1]

So if the jumper just grabs the toss instead of tipping to a teammate it is a violation. What happens to the arrow?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by onetime1

So if the jumper just grabs the toss instead of tipping to a teammate it is a violation. What happens to the arrow?

See 6.4.1C and E, and the related rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by onetime1

What happens to the arrow?

Lose the ball, and win the arrow, but it wasn't always this way, the rule changed about ten years ago. Before that an illegal possession was still considered a possession. I guess the NFHS came to its senses and considered the double jeopardy penalty to be too harsh.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Lose the ball, and win the arrow.

And, if the timekeeper starts the game clock, in error, when the tossed ball is grabbed, then be sure to reset the game clock to 8:00 because, by rule, it was an illegal touch.

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

9-6: A player shall not violate any provision of the jump ball (6-3).

I know that many on the Forum will disagree with that, so, let the games begin.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.

This is why I am choosy about with whom I have rules conversations.

I don't like talking to brick walls.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This is why I am choosy about with whom I have rules conversations.

I don't like talking to brick walls.

People always wonder why I talk to myself. It is the only way I can have an intelligent conversation.

MTD, Sr.

[dsqrddgd909]

+1 Mark!