Foul by the Thrower (Video)

[ballgame99]

T on W23 (ball is dead), nothing on blue 5 unless he said one of the magic words. He didn't appear to be saying anything agressive. The endline replay cut out before we could see what he said. And I don't think there was an official anywhere near the two to hear what was said.

L should probably stay and make sure 23 didn't get his wish and start a fight. He just left the two of them by themselves to sort it out.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

T on W23 (ball is dead), nothing on blue 5 unless he said one of the magic words. He didn't appear to be saying anything agressive. The endline replay cut out before we could see what he said. And I don't think there was an official anywhere near the two to hear what was said.

L should probably stay and make sure 23 didn't get his wish and start a fight. He just left the two of them by themselves to sort it out.

Ballgame,

Agree with you. No way I'm ignoring this contact - it was not incidental. It could lead to escalating behavior.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Ballgame,

Agree with you. No way I'm ignoring this contact - it was not incidental. It could lead to escalating behavior.

Couple others here have mentioned similar sentiments, so I have a question. Is this advocating the adjudication of a penalty in severity of what MAY happen?

If that's the case I disagree 100%. The contact looks like a no-call and one that I would address with a player first chance I got. What MAY happen after is irrelevant since non of us can tell the future.

[Reffing Rev.]

Lowering a shoulder into an opponent with no basketball play involved...I would nip that in the bud right away...call it flagrant, send him home.

How many of you would be making a different argument if it was #5 who had gone to the ground and not #23?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Couple others here have mentioned similar sentiments, so I have a question. Is this advocating the adjudication of a penalty in severity of what MAY happen?

If that's the case I disagree 100%. The contact looks like a no-call and one that I would address with a player first chance I got. What MAY happen after is irrelevant since non of us can tell the future.

Yes and no. Knowing what behaviors can escalate can be helpful, if used judiciously.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Lowering a shoulder into an opponent with no basketball play involved...I would nip that in the bud right away...call it flagrant, send him home.

How many of you would be making a different argument if it was #5 who had gone to the ground and not #23?

Let me nip this one quick. If you are implying racial prejudice in influencing calls then I would suggest you go cry up Sharpton's tree. That may happen in isolated incidents absolutely. But by far and large the responses here are pretty even keel and consistent.

You want to call a flagrant foul on this. Good luck, I'm sure that call would shoot you straight to the NBA.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by deecee

But by far and large the responses here are pretty even keel and consistent.

Except this one:

Originally Posted by deecee

If you are implying racial prejudice in influencing calls then I would suggest you go cry up Sharpton's tree.

I don't want to speak for Rev. but I'm pretty sure he/she is talking about the impact of the contact and who takes the brunt of it. Sheesh!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

Let me nip this one quick. If you are implying racial prejudice in influencing calls then I would suggest you go cry up Sharpton's tree. That may happen in isolated incidents absolutely. But by far and large the responses here are pretty even keel and consistent.

You want to call a flagrant foul on this. Good luck, I'm sure that call would shoot you straight to the NBA.

I think the only suggestion that was being made was that the instigator remains the same but he person who falls as a result was different.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Let me nip this one quick. If you are implying racial prejudice in influencing calls then I would suggest you go cry up Sharpton's tree. That may happen in isolated incidents absolutely. But by far and large the responses here are pretty even keel and consistent.

You want to call a flagrant foul on this. Good luck, I'm sure that call would shoot you straight to the NBA.

Your inference does not mean he implied it. Let's not go down that road here, there's nothing anywhere that suggests race is a factor until your post. If you want to edit it, I'll remove the posts that respond to it.

[Nevadaref]

Nah, leave his thinking posted for all to see.
He's young and prone to jump to the most radical conclusion.
He won't learn if you keep expunging his ill-advised posts.

[deecee]

I may have took it that way but that's the only difference I would see. Whether one team or the other was to cause that contact in that situation it wouldn't change anything. The only difference is race and jersey color. Whether white or blue caused this doesn't change anything.

Camron I can see your interpretation now that you mention it. I may have interpreted the comment differently but lets not act like this is the first time this topic has been broached on this forum.

If he wasn't implying what I thought he may have been then the first part of my response doesn't apply.

Adam I don't mind editing it but it could be a misunderstanding, and I wouldn't mind an actual clarification from Rev as to what he really meant first.

[rockyroad]

Seems pretty obvious that he was talking about the thrower being the one that got knocked down by the defender, and asking how many of those saying there was no foul in the OP would call a foul for that.

[HokiePaul]

A little late to this, but the consensus seems to be that this is a dead ball situation and therefore either ignored or a T.

When I look at it, I would consider the ball at the thrower's disposal as soon as he secures it and is clearly on his way out of bounds. So I would have a common foul or intentional foul on white. My question is, if I felt it was a common foul, would this be considered a PC foul? Can you have a PC foul on throw in?

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't think the kid was trying to draw a foul at all. I think he was simply trying to knock his opponent into the basket support and act like it was an accident. I think it was a deliberate, malicious act. What if B5 had punched him? Would you kick both out of the game? I would.

So by your own words of deliberate and malicious, you would have to eject the player? Malicious means flagrant to me.

I don't think I have any foul here. I have dead ball contact that isn't flagrant or intentional.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

A little late to this, but the consensus seems to be that this is a dead ball situation and therefore either ignored or a T.

When I look at it, I would consider the ball at the thrower's disposal as soon as he secures it and is clearly on his way out of bounds. So I would have a common foul or intentional foul on white. My question is, if I felt it was a common foul, would this be considered a PC foul? Can you have a PC foul on throw in?

Would you start your count as soon as he has the ball, still inbounds or wait until he is out of bounds?