Video: Foul or nothing?

[Spence]

I saw this video on another site.

.5 left on the throw-in. Shooter catches and goes up for the shot. Defender makes contact.

Nothing was called?

Clock can be seen somewhat in the top corner.


Thoughts?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Spence

Thoughts?

Looks like a fun one!

Seriously, though, I'd love a better angle on the play.

[bob jenkins]

Nearly impossible to tell from the quality and camera movement. Plus, I can never hear the horn. Based on the flight of the ball, it looks as though it was blocked.

[Raymond]

I don't know. From the camera's angle it "looks" like shot was released in time and there was contact on the shooter. But we don't officiate from a bleacher camera angle.

What would have really, really helped on this play is if the Lead would have been out on the 3-point line to help officiate the play. He would have had the best look, but instead he stayed at the free thow lane line staring at off-ball coverage. And the Trail backed off way too far for the throw-in, IMO.

[PIAA REF]

This is the issue with this play:

If you look at lead he is looking in HIS primary and does not help with that corner. THe trail has players infront of him and probably either got screened or didn't get a great look through the players. If this was a foul this is the type of play you need to pregame. The lead has to help on this type of play. It was a designed play for a corner shot. The lead was at close down position, he should have been wide since he needed to double the sideline. IN college they want you wide on this play to help with a quick violation that the trail might not see. It also is true in high school. I think If there was a foul it was leads fault for it not being called. He has to know that he needs to be wide on this type of play. You can see he his eyes are 100 percent on the match up he has infront of him.
These are the types of plays that can happen and ruin a good game, even a good officiated game. All that the fans and coaches will remember is that play. We have to be ready and know what to do in these scenerios.

[Treeguy]

With this angle, I see the ball in the air with 0.1 seconds on the clock. The defender does not jump straight up, but into the shooter while he is airborn, displacing him. Wth this angle and the stop motion of the replay, I have a shooting foul with no time left, 2 or 3 shots depending where his feet are placed.

I had a simular situation a couple of years ago. CYO, 8th grade, xmas tournament championship game. I am the trail. A couple of seconds left, white team gets the ball in the same corner in their shooter's hands, 2 defenders come towards him and he shoots a fade, it gets blocked, the defenders jump and get the blocked shot, the shooter with his fade falls backward, not touched. Clock runs out, game over. The white coach wanted a foul because his shooter fell. I told him there was no contact. needless to say, he was very upset. I was known for a while as the ref who blew that call and cost them a tournement championship. In my opion, it was not even close, there was 2-3 feet of space between the defenders and the shooter. I feel confident with my call.

[Adam]

Even if the shooter falls after contact, you don't necessarily have a foul. I had a to give a coach T a couple years ago. Last minute of a close game, A1 goes for a three to try to close the gap. After the release, B1 makes contact on the outstretched follow through. A1 then lands and falls. I call nothing. Coach wasn't happy.

[JRutledge]

There is contact, but the severity of the contact is in question as well as if the shooter is on the floor or not as well. Hard to say other than anytime there is contact someone wants a foul. Just not the case by rule.

Peace

[Judtech]

I agree that the position of the LEAD causes some concern. But since I was not in the pregame and assuming the official huddle during a possible time out prior to the play, I cant say why they were where the were. It would seem easier to start wide and close down, but there may have been a stud post player and the thinking was that the ball was going to be passed into the post.
Also, it is hard to see if the shooter was looking for contact rather than putting up a shot.
Interesing, but IMO HTBT.

[Rich]

The think the L has to help here with coverage on the shot, knowing that the T is going to be blocked from getting a close look by the fact he's administering a throw-in. His body language and angle here just doesn't square with how important this shot is -- if it's just before the buzzer, once the pass is made into the corner, there's clearly no time for a follow-up or a dump into the post, so why not try to get out there or open up to the shot....or something?

That said, the angle given on the video makes it pretty hard to come to any reasonable conclusion on whether a foul occurred or not.

[TheOracle]

Great clip. If the defender got the ball first, I'd have nothing. If the defender did not get a piece of the ball first, that's hard not to call a foul. The defender got beat badly on the play, and in his attempt to recover, made a desperate attempt to challenge the shot. If he does not get the ball, you have to reward the offensive team, because they earned it.

[APG]

Can't tell for sure if there was a foul or not. The camera angle and the abrupt movement of the camera do not help.

I agree with others in that I have to question the lead's positioning. He's too far closed down in my opinion. In my opinion he should of been wider. He would of just as easily officiated his PCA during the throw-in. When the ball gets inbounded to the corner, he's got to shift his attention to the play in front of him, even though it's technically not in his PCA. First of all, I've been always thought that every official should have an opinion on a last second shot even when it's not in one's primary area. Second, there's only one play in the gym with .5 left on the clock and the lead's going to have the best look on such a quick play.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Can't tell for sure if there was a foul or not. The camera angle and the abrupt movement of the camera do not help.

I agree with others in that I have to question the lead's positioning. He's too far closed down in my opinion. In my opinion he should of been wider. He would of just as easily officiated his PCA during the throw-in. When the ball gets inbounded to the corner, he's got to shift his attention to the play in front of him, even though it's technically not in his PCA. First of all, I've been always thought that every official should have an opinion on a last second shot even when it's not in one's primary area. Second, there's only one play in the gym with .5 left on the clock and the lead's going to have the best look on such a quick play.

It's just like having that shot in transition, IMO -- the T is out of the play because of the quick inbound pass.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's just like having that shot in transition, IMO -- the T is out of the play because of the quick inbound pass.

I agree with that assessment on this play. I will also say that on a true last second shot situation, it's almost acceptable to ball watch. I'm not saying ball watch with 5 seconds left, but when you know the impending last second shot is coming. One has to have an opinion in case the calling official butchers the call or doesn't know. Two, if for some reason, there's a dead-to-rights missed foul on the shot, an official can come help the on ball official. I'm not talking about something questionable like a slight bump.

Opinions?

[JugglingReferee]

With the given camera angle and choppy camera work, I've got the release before the horn, and I've also got a shooting foul, assuming that a foot wasn't on the ground yet.

The L was in horrible position. He needs to set with active feet and move quickly while the pass is airborne to get the best angle on the play. He did nothing to anticipate the play.