Another book Tech

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Consider the rule ... the technical is actually for having to write the player's name in the rulebook, not for him entering.

Not exactly true in NCAA-M rules. The name has to be on the roster submitted. If the official scorer makes a mistake and doesn't enter the name in the scorebook, the name can be added without penalty. While many of us would apply the same principle to a HS game, the wording of the rule is slightly different, and a mistake by the score keeper is not expressed as an exception as it is in the NCAA-M rule. If you go strictly by the wording of the HS rule, you would have to penalize the team when the name is added even if it was on the roster they submitted.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Not exactly true in NCAA-M rules. The name has to be on the roster submitted. If the official scorer makes a mistake and doesn't enter the name in the scorebook, the name can be added without penalty. While many of us would apply the same principle to a HS game, the wording of the rule is slightly different, and a mistake by the score keeper is not expressed as an exception as it is in the NCAA-M rule. If you go strictly by the wording of the HS rule, you would have to penalize the team when the name is added even if it was on the roster they submitted.

Actually, the HS rule states "the team member list", not scorebook.

10-1
ART. 1

A team shall not:

Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.

PENALTY: (Art. 1) One foul for both requirements. Penalized when it occurs

ART. 2

A team shall not:

After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1:

a. Change a designated starter unless necessitated as in 3-2-2a.

b. Add a name to the team member list.

c. Require the scorer to change a team member's or player's number in the scorebook.

d. Require a player to change to the number in the scorebook.

e. Have identical numbers on team members and/or players.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Actually, the HS rule states "the team member list", not scorebook.

10-1
ART. 1

A team shall not:

Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.

PENALTY: (Art. 1) One foul for both requirements. Penalized when it occurs

ART. 2

A team shall not:

After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1:

a. Change a designated starter unless necessitated as in 3-2-2a.

b. Add a name to the team member list.

c. Require the scorer to change a team member's or player's number in the scorebook.

d. Require a player to change to the number in the scorebook.

e. Have identical numbers on team members and/or players.

good catch

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Not exactly true in NCAA-M rules. The name has to be on the roster submitted. If the official scorer makes a mistake and doesn't enter the name in the scorebook, the name can be added without penalty. While many of us would apply the same principle to a HS game, the wording of the rule is slightly different, and a mistake by the score keeper is not expressed as an exception as it is in the NCAA-M rule. If you go strictly by the wording of the HS rule, you would have to penalize the team when the name is added even if it was on the roster they submitted.

Some of what you say is correct, but the part about my statement being not exactly true is not.

What I said was that the technical foul was not for the player entering, but was for having to write him in. Which is absolutely true. I did not say it was ALWAYS a T for that, just that the T, in the case we're talking about, is for writing him in - not for him entering. My statement was in response to a specific question, and not a global catch-all statement.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Not exactly true in NCAA-M rules. The name has to be on the roster submitted. If the official scorer makes a mistake and doesn't enter the name in the scorebook, the name can be added without penalty. While many of us would apply the same principle to a HS game, the wording of the rule is slightly different, and a mistake by the score keeper is not expressed as an exception as it is in the NCAA-M rule. If you go strictly by the wording of the HS rule, you would have to penalize the team when the name is added even if it was on the roster they submitted.

Completely wrong!
You've made several declarative, yet incorrect, statements about NFHS rules since you began posting on this forum. I politely asked you how many HS games you still work as opposed to NCAA and you stated that you do very few HS contests at this time. I'm sure that you are a quality official and you perspective is welcome on the forum, but would you please stop making such definite posts about the HS rules without consulting the books first?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Completely wrong!
You've made several declarative, yet incorrect, statements about NFHS rules since you began posting on this forum. I politely asked you how many HS games you still work as opposed to NCAA and you stated that you do very few HS contests at this time. I'm sure that you are a quality official and you perspective is welcome on the forum, but would you please stop making such definite posts about the HS rules without consulting the books first?

I made this statement because I had a situation in a HS game this year where the scorekeeper did not transcribe the names from the roster to the score book correctly. When they informed us during the game, I consulted the roster, saw the name on the list, and did not assess an administrative technical foul. Needless to say, the other coach was not happy and he complained to the assignment chair, who happens to be the head rules interpreter for our state and also assigns two college leagues I work in. He told me I was wrong for applying a college rule to a HS game. I took him at his word, and did not check the actual wording of the NFHS book saying list rather than score book. My fault.


I only make two types of statements on the forum, definitive and smart-assed. I don't anticipate this changing any time in the near future, but I will think about consulting the NFHS book first.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I made this statement because I had a situation in a HS game this year where the scorekeeper did not transcribe the names from the roster to the score book correctly. When they informed us during the game, I consulted the roster, saw the name on the list, and did not assess an administrative technical foul. Needless to say, the other coach was not happy and he complained to the assignment chair, who happens to be the head rules interpreter for our state and also assigns two college leagues I work in. He told me I was wrong for applying a college rule to a HS game. I took him at his word, and did not check the actual wording of the NFHS book saying list rather than score book. My fault.

See, you are an excellent official. You nailed that situation. In fact, we have posted exactly that scenario on this forum a few times in the past and stated to do just what you did in consulting the roster submitted to the scorer. Now if we could only get your assignor to open the NFHS rules book!
It's rather embarrassing when the state rule interpreter is wrong.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's rather embarrassing when the state rule interpreter is wrong.

That is bound to happen when those positions are filled on factors not relating to rules knowledge....as is apparently the case in some states.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That is bound to happen when those positions are filled on factors not relating to rules knowledge....as is apparently the case in some states.

Or at the NFHS admin level!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I made this statement because I had a situation in a HS game this year where the scorekeeper did not transcribe the names from the roster to the score book correctly. When they informed us during the game, I consulted the roster, saw the name on the list, and did not assess an administrative technical foul. Needless to say, the other coach was not happy and he complained to the assignment chair, who happens to be the head rules interpreter for our state and also assigns two college leagues I work in. He told me I was wrong for applying a college rule to a HS game. I took him at his word, and did not check the actual wording of the NFHS book saying list rather than score book. My fault.


I only make two types of statements on the forum, definitive and smart-assed. I don't anticipate this changing any time in the near future, but I will think about consulting the NFHS book first.

Let me get this part straight. HB said that you should have given a administrative T, even if the mistake was clerical and not submitting the incorrect information? I had a similar situation in the playoffs and we figured out the mistake was on the scorekeeper. We also did not assess a T when the sk realized he made a mistake. And it was the sk that brought the situation to our attention.

Peace

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me get this part straight. HB said that you should have given a administrative T, even if the mistake was clerical and not submitting the incorrect information? I had a similar situation in the playoffs and we figured out the mistake was on the scorekeeper. We also did not assess a T when the sk realized he made a mistake. And it was the sk that brought the situation to our attention.

Peace

Yes, HB said we should have given them an administrative technical, and yes it was a mistake by the scorekeeper. The coach in question is the biggest ******* in his conference, school located in Blue Island. Perhaps, HB was just flustered from having to argue with that jackass for an hour before he called me, but that is definitely what was said.

Originally Posted by johnny d

Yes, HB said we should have given them an administrative technical, and yes it was a mistake by the scorekeeper. The coach in question is the biggest ******* in his conference, school located in Blue Island. Perhaps, HB was just flustered from having to argue with that jackass for an hour before he called me, but that is definitely what was said.

Oh Harry...