Shooting Foul/PC/Nothing?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I disagree. B1 was not disadvantaged on this, imo.

No call.

But, I will admit that a lot of the perception, on both sides, is that B will be called for the foul if he gets faked into the air like that.

I don't think it is entirely about whether B1 was disadvantaged on a play like this.

I'm OK with a no call in general, however. But, if there were some other factors in the game, this would be a great time to have a whistle...and call a PC too. I had the defender legally jumping in his vertical space....and it makes it all the easier when the offense throws himself into the defender like that.

I had a very similar play Saturday night in a playoff game (a game that went to OT and was only decided with a foul with a 1+1 on the other end with 3 seconds left in OT...but that is another story). Not nearly as much contact as the OPs play but the shooter lunged forward to make the contact on a 3-point attempt from the corner. No call. Not a word from anyone either. It was pretty obvious that the shooter jumped in. The only thing that happened is that his shot came up woefully short.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I disagree. B1 was not disadvantaged on this, imo.

No call.

If taking a shoulder to the ribcage isn't disadvantaged, then I'm not sure what is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I disagree. It might not be fair, but once the defender fails to gain or loses LGP, then he is responsible for contact, even if said contact was completely initiated by the offensive player.

I look at this play similarly to when a ball handler pushes off with their off arm that is not dribbling. Of course in many cases the defender might not be in LGP, but that does not give them the right to push off or create space just to take a shot or to get around the defender. So this to me is similar in the fact the shooter did an unusual motion just to throw himself into his opponent. That is why I would likely try to pass on this or call a foul on the shooter. But that would be if I was thinking that fast or had the proper angle to see all of that action by the shooter.

Peace

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Spence

The defender was called for the foul. Watching it live I thought it was the right call. With benefit of replay and slow motion I can see why fans of the defender's team might disagree.

I agree with this. From the angle here, in slow motion, it did appear that the defender was jumping pretty much vertically, but a view from the endline might show something different.

[JetMetFan]

PC or nothing on this for me. I'd lean towards nothing mainly because the defender wasn't (edit) displaced.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

If taking a shoulder to the ribcage isn't disadvantaged, then I'm not sure what is.

That's not a disadvantage unless it prevents him from performing normal defensive actions. I'll agree disadvantage here is minimal. However, displacement seems sufficient here.

I'd probably call the PC and wouldn't give a rat's rump about the grief I took. It's possible I'd no-call it, too. It's really hard to say.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

PC or nothing on this for me. I'd lean towards nothing mainly because the defender was displaced.

I'm confused.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm confused.

Sorry. I mean't wasn't. I changed my original post.

[deecee]

No call.

[Rich]

Same type of thing we see on desperation heaves at the end of quarters/games where the coaches scream for a foul despite the legal defender and the shooter initiating contact.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would be tempted to call nothing. The shooter threw himself into the defender who was not completely legal....
Peace

Why do you say that the defender was not completely legal? Didn't he establish LGP, then go straight up vertically? In your view of the play, did he do something to lose that position?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by LRZ

Why do you say that the defender was not completely legal? Didn't he establish LGP, then go straight up vertically? In your view of the play, did he do something to lose that position?

Because I do not see the defender as being completely vertical. The defender seems to jump towards the shooter, but never would have contacted the shooter without the actions of the shooter throwing his body into the defender. If you are not vertical or you are jumping towards your opponent, then you are no longer in a legal position.

Peace

[LRZ]

Thanks for clarifying, Jeff.

[Ref16]

Player control if there is a whistle...

I would most likely have nothing here

[Rich]

It's a miserable thing because the right call (no call) is gonna get you screamed at more than making the wrong call (defensive foul).