Verbally counting during a throw-in

[jTheUmp]

Late in a close game, Team A has a backcourt endline throw-in coming out of a timeout. Team B is in a heavy full-court press, and has already been successful at causing a few 5-second throw-in violations earlier in the game.

Thrower A1 asks you to give a verbal count along with your regular arm count.

Do you oblige her request?

[HokiePaul]

No. I think it might state somewhere in one of the books (officials manual or rules book) that the count is "silent and visible". The Coach (or any other player for that matter) can watch the visual count and verbalize if they wish (or request a timeout if the count gets to 4).

[HokiePaul]

Only have last year's book with me, but the officals manual, 2.2.2.A.8 (General Throw in Provisions) states:
"The administering official shall begin the five-second count when the ball is at the thrower's disposal. The count is silent and visible"

[bob jenkins]

Agreed. Do not count out loud.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Late in a close game, Team A has a backcourt endline throw-in coming out of a timeout. Team B is in a heavy full-court press, and has already been successful at causing a few 5-second throw-in violations earlier in the game.

Thrower A1 asks you to give a verbal count along with your regular arm count.

Do you oblige her request?

No I do not oblige. The coach can watch my arm swing and keep his own count.

[JRutledge]

Never, you are giving the team with the ball an advantage.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Do not count out loud. How do you respond if the inbound defender counts out loud? We've got a team here that has adopted it.

After a couple of games where they were warned to stop and tech'd up once, the coach/AD conctacted our assignor. It was determined that as there was no rule preventing them from counting or calling out numbers to indicate/communicate amongst defenders so long as they didn't use their count to argue or incite we had to let it go. When she gets to 5 well before my count she keeps yelling 5 over and over lol.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

How do you respond if the inbound defender counts out loud? We've got a team here that has adopted it.

You don't ... unless it is during a free throw, which could be considered disconcerting.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Do not count out loud. How do you respond if the inbound defender counts out loud? We've got a team here that has adopted it.

After a couple of games where they were warned to stop and tech'd up once, the coach/AD conctacted our assignor. It was determined that as there was no rule preventing them from counting or calling out numbers to indicate/communicate amongst defenders so long as they didn't use their count to argue or incite we had to let it go. When she gets to 5 well before my count she keeps yelling 5 over and over lol.

That's unsporting, and it's also deceptive. I'd put a stop to it, and frankly your association needs to stand up and say it.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Adam

That's unsporting, and it's also deceptive. I'd put a stop to it, and frankly your association needs to stand up and say it.

I don't agree with this. It could potentially be unsporting I suppose, but counting out loud in and of itself is not unsporting. The defense could have a legitimate reason for wanting to count out loud and I'm certainly not penalizing the act of counting out loud. Perhaps the defense is fronting the offense and the on-ball defender is sharing information with his/her teamates.

If the counting were to be penalized, it would be for the "how", not the "what", and it would take a lot for me to go this route when it could simply be ignored.

And as far as being deceptive ... defenses should be allowed to be deceptive as long as that deception doesn't violate any rules. You wouldn't penalize a team for deceptively yelling out "2-3 zone, 2-3 zone" only to actually play a full court press. Why would any other deceptive verbal communication be any different?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I don't agree with this. It could potentially be unsporting I suppose, but counting out loud in and of itself is not unsporting. The defense could have a legitimate reason for wanting to count out loud and I'm certainly not penalizing the act of counting out loud. Perhaps the defense is fronting the offense and the on-ball defender is sharing information with his/her teamates.

Do you believe it when coaches say, "I'm not talking to you."?

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Rich

Do you believe it when coaches say, "I'm not talking to you."?

It would depend ... but it's also irrelevent to any penalty I'm going to assess. If I heard "that's terrible" from the coach, I'm not waiting to clarify whether or not it was directed at me to make a decision. If I'm turning to address the coach after hearing that, I've already made up my mind as to whether its a warning or a T

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I don't agree with this. It could potentially be unsporting I suppose, but counting out loud in and of itself is not unsporting.

In the post that started this part of the discussion, it was stated that the defender gets to 5 well before the official's count and then yells 5 over and over.

That is either being done to try to draw a call from us or to show us up. It's going to get a "Knock it off" from me and a word to the Coach about it asap, and if they keep doing it, it will result in a T being called.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

It would depend ... but it's also irrelevent to any penalty I'm going to assess. If I heard "that's terrible" from the coach, I'm not waiting to clarify whether or not it was directed at me to make a decision. If I'm turning to address the coach after hearing that, I've already made up my mind as to whether its a warning or a T

The reason I asked is actually in rockyroad's post - it's irrelevant why the team says they're doing it. I'd argue that they are doing it in an unsportsmanlike way.

[stick]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Late in a close game, Team A has a backcourt endline throw-in coming out of a timeout. Team B is in a heavy full-court press, and has already been successful at causing a few 5-second throw-in violations earlier in the game.

Thrower A1 asks you to give a verbal count along with your regular arm count.

Do you oblige her request?

Absolutely not!! The job to figure out the count isn't the players, it's the coach-assistant coaches. But sometimes the player taking the ball out is heads up to know what the count is and call time out before a violation.