Do you guess?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by loners4me

I work with a guy like this. I sometimes wonder if he's looking to flex??? I can usually get a good angle working down or backing up as the T. He's gotten trapped there before on a turnover...

Sh!t happens. It's what you get when you try and officiate a competitive game with 2 officials. I've been caught too, but what you gonna do?

[loners4me]

Agreed. Its 2 man. Do what works for ya!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by loners4me

I work with a guy like this. I sometimes wonder if he's looking to flex??? I can usually get a good angle working down or backing up as the T. He's gotten trapped there before on a turnover...

I'll work over as far as I need to go. The farther across the court I go, the more I move back. Usually if I'm in the center circle or farther, I'm in the backcourt.

I've gotten caught once or twice this season and have had to let players pass me. Seems like a reasonable trade-off.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Don't. Ever. Guess.....ever.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, we've been strongly encouraged to have a whistle on a train wreck, even if we have to guess. I real feel awkward doing this, but I'm not in charge.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by deecee

In 2 man as the trail you have to move towards the center of the court to get an angle at plays in your primary on the opposite side of the court. There are times I have found myself in the half court circle.

I haven't had to go quite that far...but I agree. Unfortunately it seems every time I have had to do that in a boys game there is a quick change in direction and I find myself in the middle of a lot of really fast young men coming right at me. I just brace for impact while hoping they see me soon enough...then bust it as much as possible to get a somewhat decent view of things at the other end.

Only once did someone not see me soon enough. I got up quickly, but it took a bit for me to back to normal. That guy was solid as a rock.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

Only once did someone not see me soon enough. I got up quickly, but it took a bit for me to back to normal. That guy was solid as a rock.

In keeping with NCAA this year, you called a block on yourself, correct?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

In keeping with NCAA this year, you called a block on yourself, correct?

Shouldn't have braced himself.

"Take it like a man"

Originally Posted by deecee

In 2 man as the trail you have to move towards the center of the court to get an angle at plays in your primary on the opposite side of the court. There are times I have found myself in the half court circle.

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

I haven't had to go quite that far...but I agree. Unfortunately it seems every time I have had to do that in a boys game there is a quick change in direction and I find myself in the middle of a lot of really fast young men coming right at me.

I was told by two very experienced officials that I was "painting the logo" when I was working Trail in 2 man. They suggested moving into the backcourt for a better angle instead of coming so far onto the floor. They said it is better to be further away from play, but just move back to get the angle.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I was told by two very experienced officials that I was "painting the logo" when I was working Trail in 2 man. They suggested moving into the backcourt for a better angle instead of coming so far onto the floor. They said it is better to be further away from play, but just move back to get the angle.

I'm pretty experienced and that sounds like nonsense.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I was told by two very experienced officials that I was "painting the logo" when I was working Trail in 2 man. They suggested moving into the backcourt for a better angle instead of coming so far onto the floor. They said it is better to be further away from play, but just move back to get the angle.

Baloney. You move to where you need to be to get a good look. There have been times in the backcourt with pressure and my as T I come up almost on the same side as the L.

I don't officiate and worry about what may happen, as it pertains to getting beat. I only worry about what *is* happening.

Originally Posted by deecee

Baloney. You move to where you need to be to get a good look. There have been times in the backcourt with pressure and my as T I come up almost on the same side as the L.

There's a difference between positioning in the backcourt (the rule of thirds) and officiating from the circle in the frontcourt. By officiating from the circle, or even close to it, you are right in the way if there is a deflection and turnover.

Obviously in 2 man you are going to come further onto the court as Trail than in 3 man. Still, being near the circle is simply too far.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AremRed

There's a difference between positioning in the backcourt (the rule of thirds) and officiating from the circle in the frontcourt. By officiating from the circle, or even close to it, you are right in the way if there is a deflection and turnover.

Obviously in 2 man you are going to come further onto the court as Trail than in 3 man. Still, being near the circle is simply too far.

If you have a competitive matchup just above the FT extended on the far side of the court, you need to have distance AND the angle to officiate that matchup. Same with a half court trap on the far side.

You may think you can credibly officiate that from a few steps from the sideline, but I think you're mistaken. I still work about 40% of my games 2-person. I end up in the circle or even beyond it at times. Much of that time I end up in the backcourt when I go that wide, but not always.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

If you have a competitive matchup just above the FT extended on the far side of the court, you need to have distance AND the angle to officiate that matchup. Same with a half court trap on the far side.

You may think you can credibly officiate that from a few steps from the sideline, but I think you're mistaken. I still work about 40% of my games 2-person. I end up in the circle or even beyond it at times. Much of that time I end up in the backcourt when I go that wide, but not always.

Agree.

With a play in that location, your best position will be at least as far into the court as the circle, maybe even beyond it just a bit. You might also go into the backcourt depending on how high or low the play is. Being more then 1/2 the width of court away from the play is just too far away to have a good view.

Originally Posted by AremRed

There's a difference between positioning in the backcourt (the rule of thirds) and officiating from the circle in the frontcourt. By officiating from the circle, or even close to it, you are right in the way if there is a deflection and turnover.

Obviously in 2 man you are going to come further onto the court as Trail than in 3 man. Still, being near the circle is simply too far.

To get any sort of angle you'd need to see in a trap by moving just toward the backcourt while staying a few feet from the sideline, you could end up being 50-60 feet from the play. Plus, the distance you'd need to move to any adjustments you'd need to make to maintain a view through the players are multiplied by the distance. By moving only towards the backcourt, you pretty much give up any chance of improving your angle as the players shift.

Staying well on your side of the court would be akin to the leading covering a play in one corner while positioned on the opposite side of the paint.

And so what if you get caught in the middle on a turn over. That is rare. Far more common is that you'll not be able to adequately cover the trap on the far side. If you do get stuck on a turnover, just go down the other side to cover the play at the other end. If you have a good partner, they will see what happened and will shift to the other side. If they don't, you can slide back across once you get to the endline.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree.

With a play in that location, your best position will be at least as far into the court as the circle, maybe even beyond it just a bit. You might also go into the backcourt depending on how high or low the play is. Being more then 1/2 the width of court away from the play is just too far away to have a good view.



To get any sort of angle you'd need to see in a trap by moving just toward the backcourt while staying a few fee from the sideline, you could end up being 50-60 feet from the play. Plus, the distance you'd need to move to any adjustments you'd need to make to maintain a view through the players are multiplied by the distance. By moving only towards the backcourt, you pretty much give up any chance of improving your angle as the players shift.

Staying well in your side of the court would be akin to the leading covering a play in one corner while positioned on the opposite side of the paint.

And so what if you get caught in the middle on a turn over. That is rare. Far more common is that you'll not be able to adequately cover the trap on the far side. If you do get stuck on a turnover, just go down the other side to cover the play at the other end. If you have a good partner, they will see what happened and will shift to the otherside. If they don't, you can slide back across once you get to the endline.

I was hoping you'd post as I know you work a significant amount of varsity basketball 2-person (even more than I do these days, I'm guessing, since we're working *some* of our games 3-person and I tend to seek those conferences out these days when I can). Is everything in OR still 2-person at the HS level?

One of the first things we teach officials is that angle is king, but distance is important, if only for credibility when we make a call. If I'm making a call on the far side of the court, I'd better be over there and I'd better be closing as I make a call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was hoping you'd post as I know you work a significant amount of varsity basketball 2-person (even more than I do these days, I'm guessing, since we're working *some* of our games 3-person and I tend to seek those conferences out these days when I can). Is everything in OR still 2-person at the HS level?

Yes, our HS is 99% 2-person. Those of us who have done 3-person in college have been demo'ing 3-person (sometimes with one HS official who hasn't done much/any 3-person) in a few beginning of the season Jamborees in the hopes of getting the coaches to demand ii...and most of them do want it.

Originally Posted by Rich

One of the first things we teach officials is that angle is king, but distance is important, if only for credibility when we make a call. If I'm making a call on the far side of the court, I'd better be over there and I'd better be closing as I make a call.

Yep. And as I said, above, the farther you are from the play, the less you can adjust your position for a better angle. So, to be able to keep a good angle, you just can't be far away.