Foul or Incidental (video)

[#olderthanilook]

redrum...redrum!!!! I mean, redfoul.

[BatteryPowered]

While neither was without fault, I agree with a foul on red.

I have to admit, since I started up again this is the call I have the most trouble with. Two players going for the ball and neither without fault...a play where the level of contact dictates you HAVE to have a whistle but on who. Until I get back into a better groove, see more, pick the brain of better officials, etc. I have just been giving the benefit of the doubt to the offensive player.

At least that way only one coach and half the gym is hissed off at me.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

I have to admit, since I started up again this is the call I have the most trouble with. Two players going for the ball and neither without fault...a play where the level of contact dictates you HAVE to have a whistle but on who.

The level of contact does not dictate whether or not you have to have a foul. Do not adopt this as a philosophy for identifying fouls. There can be all kinds of plays with severe contact between two players that do not require foul calls.

[MD Longhorn]

Both players are jumping up diagonally (pause it when they contact the ball - it's clear). It even appears (in slo mo) red gets to the ball first. I'd probably call a foul on red at full speed too ... but there's no "level of contact that requires a call" and I wouldn't fault an official who didn't whistle this, or even one that went against white.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Both players are jumping up diagonally (pause it when they contact the ball - it's clear). It even appears (in slo mo) red gets to the ball first. I'd probably call a foul on red at full speed too ... but there's no "level of contact that requires a call" and I wouldn't fault an official who didn't whistle this, or even one that went against white.

Looks to me like the white player is reaching diagonally. However if we look at where both players jump from in relation to their bodies when the contact takes place is seems that red is moving into white. I think red may contact the ball first but doesn't her moving into white make that a moot point?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

The level of contact does not dictate whether or not you have to have a foul. Do not adopt this as a philosophy for identifying fouls. There can be all kinds of plays with severe contact between two players that do not require foul calls.

That may be ideally true but with severe contact assignors generally WANT a whistle.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by deecee

That may be ideally true but with severe contact assignors generally WANT a whistle.

None of the assignors I work for in college or HS want a whistle just because there is severe contact. They all want whistles on plays that are fouls, regardless of the severity of the contact that caused the foul.

[johnny d]

Now if you want to argue that in most plays when there is severe contact there is also a foul involved, I can agree with that. However, to reiterate my previous point, the severity of contact or lack thereof is not a criteria that should ever be used to determine whether or not a foul occurred.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Now if you want to argue that in most plays when there is severe contact there is also a foul involved, I can agree with that. However, to reiterate my previous point, the severity of contact or lack thereof is not a criteria that should ever be used to determine whether or not a foul occurred.

Isn't that basically the definition of advantage/disadvantage? It is to me.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

While neither was without fault, I agree with a foul on red.

I have to admit, since I started up again this is the call I have the most trouble with. Two players going for the ball and neither without fault...a play where the level of contact dictates you HAVE to have a whistle but on who. Until I get back into a better groove, see more, pick the brain of better officials, etc. I have just been giving the benefit of the doubt to the offensive player.

At least that way only one coach and half the gym is hissed off at me.

I disagree with you that neither player was at fault. White Player was in a more advantageous position than the Red Player: Easy one to call, foul on Red.

MTD, Sr.