Vid Request - Missouri/Vandy "on the floor"

[ballgame99]

1:55 of the first half, a continuous motion 'and one' situation that was ruled "on the floor". But the officials had a long talk about it and stuck with the call. I thought it should have counted.

[Raymond]

Bump!

[Raymond]

Did the play resemble what was discussed in this thread NCAA-Men's Habitual Shooting Motion?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Bump!

Some of you may be able to browse to the play (1:55 first half) here: ESPN3 -- Vanderbilt vs. Missouri

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Did the play resemble what was discussed in this thread NCAA-Men's Habitual Shooting Motion?

Yes. The foul occured after the dribble ended, but before the shooter jumped with his non-pivot foot (or what I think the NCAA is calling upward motion).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Yes. The foul occured after the dribble ended, but before the shooter jumped with his non-pivot foot (or what I think the NCAA is calling upward motion).

The upward motion refers to what the offensive player is doing with the ball. As in, has A1 started bringing the ball upward into a position to shoot.

[JetMetFan]

Here's the play...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The upward motion refers to what the offensive player is doing with the ball. As in, has A1 started bringing the ball upward into a position to shoot.

I know they changed the requirements for LGP to be relative to upward motion but did they also change the definition of the act of shooting.

He also brought the ball back down after being fouled and then went back up with it again. That could be what led the official to wipe the basket....the actual attempt to have started after he brought it down and started back up again.

It could also be the fact that he caught the ball on his left foot, stepped with the right, then stepped with the left again before releasing the shot....being fouled doesn't give the player a free pass on a travel.

I ruled the similar Syracuse play as continuation, but this one is perplexing.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I know they changed the requirements for LGP to be relative to upward motion but did they also change the definition of the act of shooting.

...

Yes, in mid-season.

NCAA-Men's Habitual Shooting Motion

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Yes. The foul occured after the dribble ended, but before the shooter jumped with his non-pivot foot (or what I think the NCAA is calling upward motion).

Since when did the feet being on the floor have anything to do with whether a player was shooting?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I know they changed the requirements for LGP to be relative to upward motion but did they also change the definition of the act of shooting.

He also brought the ball back down after being fouled and then went back up with it again. That could be what led the official to wipe the basket....the actual attempt to have started after he brought it down and started back up again.

It could also be the fact that he caught the ball on his left foot, stepped with the right, then stepped with the left again before releasing the shot....being fouled doesn't give the player a free pass on a travel.

That's what I was thinking, that the foul occurred during the attempt, but then the shooter traveled, before he released the ball.

[Welpe]

It's a brave new world in the NCAA.

I would have wiped the basket in NFHS for the travel and put him on the line.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by Adam

Since when did the feet being on the floor have anything to do with whether a player was shooting?

I wasn't implying that they did, I was just describing the play.

I don't see a clear travel. It is tough to see when the dribble ends from that angle, but I am seeing the dribble end while he is airborne, with the right foot coming down first and becoming the pivot, and then jumping off of left; therefore legal. He may have traveled but that would be a tough one to see in transition in traffic.

So all of this talk about upward motion in NCAA means that there is a difference in standard between NCAA and NFHS? Wouldn't this bucket count in NFHS? Assuming no travel...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

So all of this talk about upward motion in NCAA means that there is a difference in standard between NCAA and NFHS?

The difference has existed since the start of the season (well, since the NCAAM rules changes were announced before the season).

The NCAA rule is about the same as FED 4-11-1. FED paragraphs 4-11-2 and 3 do not exist in the NCAA definitions (I think that's true for both NCAAM and NCAAW), so it's left to a little interpretation.