Happened at Half, What do you do?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If we penalize the coach during the half-time without being confronted, it is going to turn into a "hearsay" situation. And then we are going to be confronted with more questions than I would like to take on. I just can imagine the conversations coming from assignors or the state if that is why we penalized a coach for just for what we overheard. This is why IMO wait until he acts up on the court and then it makes him wonder. Then we got him where we want him, rather than giving him a "victim" role that will be played if we come out and give a T for something no one was around to witness.

Peace

Exactly. And we assume that people can hear what we say in the locker room, too. Always.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

Exactly. And we assume that people can hear what we say in the locker room, too. Always.

I disagree with Jeff's reasoning slightly here. If we get confronted by the coach in the locker room, directly, I'm calling the T regardless of who else hears the conversation.

"He said-he said" isn't a real concern for me.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd leave it alone at the time, but the location of our dressing area and the loud comments directed our way would go into any report I'd file later.

The coach would have no rope in the second half. I'd whack him on the FIRST opportunity. He'd know why, too, so no explanation would be needed, either.

I disagree with the "no jurisdiction" comment, but I agree that a locker room confrontation is something I'm not interested in pursuing.

I agree with this.

Put me down as one who thinks we can issue a T here but I think it is best to handle it this way.

The coach will get no quarter in the second half. He's used up all of his goodwill with that little stunt.

[Adam]

And I also think, for the record, his players will get little rope as well. I'm thinking this through, though.

Tech him. It's not a game of he-said-she-said if your partners heard it too. Stick together and do the right thing. These comments would be an easy T if overheard on the bench, or on the way to the locker room. Treat it the same. You're gonna whack him eventually, might as well do it sooner.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Tech him. It's not a game of he-said-she-said if your partners heard it too. Stick together and do the right thing. These comments would be an easy T if overheard on the bench, or on the way to the locker room. Treat it the same. You're gonna whack him eventually, might as well do it sooner.

It is still he-said-he-said no matter who heard it. The problem is that unless you confront the coach immediately, they do not know you heard them and will get them denying they said it or that it was them that made the comments. And unless you do that, they will easily claim they made no such comment. So instead of it being a T that is accepted, it will be a debate that it was said at all. And the coach will claim you guys got together and went after the coach.

My point is do it so that everyone can observe his actions. When you do it behind closed doors, you give them a way to make other accusations. It would be no different if they said you said something and it was overheard. It would be hard for them to prove too. Wait until he raises his voice on the court and at least everyone can see that took place.

Peace

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You can't penalize this. But you can report it. And as others have said ... the rope is gone.

Yes, this type of information definitely goes into a Game Report to the assignor.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If we penalize the coach during the half-time without being confronted, it is going to turn into a "hearsay" situation. And then we are going to be confronted with more questions than I would like to take on. I just can imagine the conversations coming from assignors or the state if that is why we penalized a coach for just for what we overheard. This is why IMO wait until he acts up on the court and then it makes him wonder. Then we got him where we want him, rather than giving him a "victim" role that will be played if we come out and give a T for something no one was around to witness.

Peace

+1

Plus, you have just created an entirely new problem, and still have half a basketball game to go (probably with his ejection shortly after). Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. I am all for any rope what so ever being taken away. I am not going to take anything that comes out of his/her mouth personally. If he continues whack him; if he doesn't stop send him off. All in the course of doing your job and it doesn't look personal on your end. Just like any other foul. JMO

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is still he-said-he-said no matter who heard it. The problem is that unless you confront the coach immediately, they do not know you heard them and will get them denying they said it or that it was them that made the comments. And unless you do that, they will easily claim they made no such comment. So instead of it being a T that is accepted, it will be a debate that it was said at all. And the coach will claim you guys got together and went after the coach.

My point is do it so that everyone can observe his actions. When you do it behind closed doors, you give them a way to make other accusations. It would be no different if they said you said something and it was overheard. It would be hard for them to prove too. Wait until he raises his voice on the court and at least everyone can see that took place.

Peace

It's always a he-said-he-said situation. There's actually more witnesses here than some of the on-the-court situations. That's not enough of a reason not to penalize him for me.

OTOH, even though it's being said for the referees' benefit, it's hard to say it was directed at the referees. The "sanctity" of the locker room just barely let's him slide by.

[zm1283]

I'm of the opinion that you can T him, but I wouldn't at halftime. I'm with the guys who said they would wait until the second half and whack him as soon as he starts complaining about anything. No rope, nothing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is still he-said-he-said no matter who heard it. The problem is that unless you confront the coach immediately, they do not know you heard them and will get them denying they said it or that it was them that made the comments. And unless you do that, they will easily claim they made no such comment. So instead of it being a T that is accepted, it will be a debate that it was said at all. And the coach will claim you guys got together and went after the coach.

My point is do it so that everyone can observe his actions. When you do it behind closed doors, you give them a way to make other accusations. It would be no different if they said you said something and it was overheard. It would be hard for them to prove too. Wait until he raises his voice on the court and at least everyone can see that took place.

Peace

If he's going to deny saying it, he's going to do so whether you confronted him immediately or not. Either way, it's still your word against his.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

If he's going to deny saying it, he's going to do so whether you confronted him immediately or not. Either way, it's still your word against his.

If he confronts you, chances are there are more people around. A lot of people would have to lie or misrepresent the situation and harder to rely on. As a matter of fact and administrator or person with GM might also see that confrontation. Overhearing just makes it harder to prove it took place. In the gym there are likely hundreds of people and video cameras to back up either actions or sometimes words. That is why he would get a shorter leash and I would let him hang himself in that case. But if you T him up and then come out and say "We overheard you" he will say that did not happen and you went after him for something personal. I am not saying you have no right to do what you suggest, but make it so more observers can corroborate your position.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

It's always a he-said-he-said situation. There's actually more witnesses here than some of the on-the-court situations. That's not enough of a reason not to penalize him for me.

OTOH, even though it's being said for the referees' benefit, it's hard to say it was directed at the referees. The "sanctity" of the locker room just barely let's him slide by.

The last part of your statement is why what is said in the locker room can be dangerous to penalize. Those comments were not said to you and they were not said under your clear jurisdiction. It is one thing if something is said on the court where you have interpretations that support your penalizing behavior. This is more of a GM issue that could be reported to others and dealt with in other ways.

I am not telling anyone not to do this if they choose. Just be prepared for the back and forth to prove what you heard. And yes, that could get messy.

Peace

[Raymond]

One thing I've learned, coaches lie all the time, so I'm not really concerned about "he said/she said".

None of my supervisors would want me calling a T b/c of something I overheard in the locker room. They would call that "looking for trouble". They would have no problem with me banging the MF'er first opportunity I could once the 2nd half started.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

One thing I've learned, coaches lie all the time, so I'm not really concerned about "he said/she said".

None of my supervisors would want me calling a T b/c of something I overheard in the locker room. They would call that "looking for trouble". They would have no problem with me banging the MF'er first opportunity I could once the 2nd half started.

More succinct than mine, thank you.