Followup question to another post

[jking_94577]

What happens in the case where A1 steps on the shoe of B1. The shoe comes off B1 but A1 is still on the shoe and the shoe is touching OOB. Is the shoe a part of the player still or is it now an object and thus A1 is OOB.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by jking_94577
What happens in the case where A1 steps on the shoe of B1. The shoe comes off B1 but A1 is still on the shoe and the shoe is touching OOB. Is the shoe a part of the player still or is it now an object and thus A1 is OOB.

You're jking, right?!?

[Nevadaref]

7-1 ...A player is out of bounds when he/she touches the floor, or any object other than a player, on or outside a boundary.

Based on the above, I would have to say that yes the player is OOB. While this is a far-fetched senario, it highlights the importance of keeping objects off the playing floor. For example, if a towel is dropped in front of the team bench and is half in the court and half out, it would seem that a player stepping on the in bounds part of the towel would have to be considered OOB.

[canuckrefguy]

maybe the coaches out there will start teaching their kids to jump out of their shoes in this situation

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
For example, if a towel is dropped in front of the team bench and is half in the court and half out, it would seem that a player stepping on the in bounds part of the towel would have to be considered OOB.

I disagree. First, if I see the towel, I'll kill the play anyway. Now if the player stepped on the part of the towel that was OOB, I would whistle the violation. But just because a towel is across the boundary line and the player touches it inbounds is no reason to penalize the player. Kill the play and get the towel off the floor.

If a coach stuck his hand out and touched a player who was otherwise obviously inbounds, would you call him OOB?

[JRutledge]

I cannot even believe you are discussing with with any seriousness.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I disagree. First, if I see the towel, I'll kill the play anyway. Now if the player stepped on the part of the towel that was OOB, I would whistle the violation. But just because a towel is across the boundary line and the player touches it inbounds is no reason to penalize the player. Kill the play and get the towel off the floor.

If a coach stuck his hand out and touched a player who was otherwise obviously inbounds, would you call him OOB?

Tony, You can disagree all you want. All I did was quote the rule and it seems very clear. For the coach senario, if the player touches the coach it is OOB, if the coach touches the player and is not trying to catch him or stop him from being hurt, I think it has to be a technical foul.

[Ref in PA]

I would blow my whistle - not for the violation, but to get an object off the floor that came into play. If the play continued without touching the towel/shoe, I would NOT stop play, but allow sideline personnel to reach out and clean it up. I would only blow the whistle if I felt the object came into play - and then to get it cleaned up (stepping on the object obviously brings it into play). I want to prevent an injury of a twisted or broken ankle.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I think it has to be a technical foul.

You can think all you want. But can you cite a rule or case play?

[Jurassic Referee]

Like any other rule, the OOB rule was written with a "spirit and intent" in mind.The intent obviously was to penalize players with the ball for not remaining in the playing area.If you were to apply a completely literal interpretation to this rule,you could come up with some absolutely ludicrous calls.A1 is dribbling in front of the B bench. A B substitute drops a towel,half in/half off the court,in front of A1.A1 now steps on the towel. TWEET! OOB's and we got B's ball! Also,imagine a fan throwing a popcorn box at a player with the ball,and hitting him. TWEET! You now have to call that player OOB and give the other team the ball, as per Nevada's strict interpretation of the rule. You do have a player in this case touching an object that is OOB; the popcorn box is OOB because it came from OOB and never touched in bounds.

I would surely like to be there there to see someone call these plays the way Nevada suggests.

On second thought,I wouldn't want to be there.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

You can think all you want. But can you cite a rule or case play?

You can probably stretch R10-4-2, and say that the coach "entered the court" when he reached in bounds and touched a player.Again though,there's still the "spirit and intent" of the rule that should determine your call,or non-call(hopefully ).

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
A1 is dribbling in front of the B bench. A B substitute drops a towel,half in/half off the court,in front of A1.A1 now steps on the towel. TWEET! OOB's and we got B's ball! Also,imagine a fan throwing a popcorn box at a player with the ball,and hitting him. TWEET! You now have to call that player OOB and give the other team the ball, as per Nevada's strict interpretation of the rule.

As usual, JR, you have taken the situation and twisted it to fit what you want to say or to allow you to criticize someone. In this case you have taken the play where an object is lying on a boundary line, presumably through no one's fault, and a player touches it; (The rule clearly states this is OOB.) and changed it into a situation where an opposing player (or fan) takes action which would cause the violation. This is a world of difference. In both cases the play should be stopped and appropriate measures should be taken against the person who threw an object onto the playing floor, whether this punishment is a technical foul or removal from the gym depends on who did what.
Hopefully, you can see the difference between someone throwing something onto the floor and an object being left on the floor, such as a cheerleaders pom-pom after a halftime show, and the officials not noticing it until it becomes part of the play.
And yes, in the second situation, I would strictly enforce the rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
[/B]

Hopefully, you can see the difference between someone throwing something onto the floor and an object being left on the floor, such as a cheerleaders pom-pom after a halftime show, and the officials not noticing it until it becomes part of the play.
And yes, in the second situation, I would strictly enforce the rule. [/B][/QUOTE] Specific situation,as above,Nevada:
Team A is down 1 with 10 seconds to go and sets up for the last shot after a TO. A1 dribbles in front of B's bench on the way up court. A1 now steps on the in-bounds part of a towel that was left lying half-on and half off of the court in front of B's bench by a B player. You're telling me that you would call a violation on A1 now for being OOB? Or if a B cheerleader left her pompom on the floor,and A1 then stepped on the in-bound part of it, you would again call A1 for being OOB, and give B the ball?

Nothing personal,Nevada,but those calls lack common sense, IMHO.

[oc]

gotta agree with Rut and JR on this. I can't believe you are discussing this and the spirit of the rule did not include towels and shoes.

[JugglingReferee]

I'd call a flagrant T on the towel and through the thing outta the gym.

I would drench him in a large mud pile and then use a cheap, cut-rate detergent to wash him. He'd beg for Tide, but I would refuse.

Mike