The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 02:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
You think the Trail knew the situation? why did he need the coach to basically run into him to acknowledge him?
Because his #1 priority during a live ball is the game on the floor.

As for whether it was after the release or not, who cares? The coach asked for it, the official heard it, verified that his team had player control, then granted it. If whistles normally occurred the very moment of the request/violation/foul, we'd be talking about how many inadvertent whistles were in every game.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association

Last edited by Camron Rust; Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 03:02am.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 03:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Was there anything to see other than the timeout/canceled buzzer beater?

(Not watching 14 minutes of video to find out)
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 06:22am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Was there anything to see other than the timeout/canceled buzzer beater?

(Not watching 14 minutes of video to find out)
No, that was the crux of this thread.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 06:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
My thinking was: the whistle stops the clock. The whistle occurred after the release.
In this instance, when the whistle is blown it's up to the crew to come together to determine whether the time-out should have been granted (i.e., was a player on white in control of the ball). As johnny d said, either you grant the time-out, cancel the goal and put the correct time back on the clock or you don't grant the time-out, count the goal and everybody goes home.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
There are some instances in which a dead ball is scored.
No, there aren't.

NFHS 5-1-1
A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)

Last edited by JetMetFan; Mon Feb 17, 2014 at 06:33am.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 07:12am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
A Few ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
There are some instances in which a dead ball is scored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
No, there aren't.
Defensive basket interference. Defensive goaltending.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 07:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Defensive basket interference. Defensive goaltending.
My mistake. Thanks, Billy.

At any rate, granting a time-out while a try is in flight wouldn't be one of those situations.
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 08:19am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Because his #1 priority during a live ball is the game on the floor.

As for whether it was after the release or not, who cares? The coach asked for it, the official heard it, verified that his team had player control, then granted it. If whistles normally occurred the very moment of the request/violation/foul, we'd be talking about how many inadvertent whistles were in every game.
Your first sentence is a nice slogan, but if this timeout is missed and the shot misses, the only perception that matters is that the crew has no game awareness and missed the timeout request.

I have no problem with how this was administered. The timing of the whistle means absolutely nothing to me. The timeout was obviously requested before the shot and it was granted. Nothing to see here - put time back on the clock, grant the timeout, and play on.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 10:06am
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
The coach knew he blew it. He iced his own shooter...ouch.

They handled the TO properly. The coach put them in a bad situation to start with. I'm no so sure I'd be expecting a TO from the coach as his shooter is pulling up for a last second shot but this is a good lesson be prepared for anything.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:22pm
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
For Brevity

The 3 minute version:

__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The timing of the whistle means absolutely nothing to me.
It should. If it was blown prior to time expiring, then there will be time left on the game clock.
The officials can rule this play one of two ways.
1. The time-out was properly requested prior to the player control ending, but acknowledged a little late. Restore time to when the whistle sounded and white has the ball for a sideline throw-in.
2. The time-out request was not heard and properly granted until after the try was released, in which case the goal counts. The whistle still stops the clock and the team is still charged with the time-out which was requested, but erroneously granted. (It's erroneously granted in this case because it was acknowledged at point when it should not have been--there was no player control.) Resume the game at the POI = endline throw-in for Green.

What the officials cannot do is what one poster suggested and ignore the whistle, count the goal, and declare the game over. That's wrong by rule. The game clock must stop when the whistle is sounded.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 02:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Your first sentence is a nice slogan, but if this timeout is missed and the shot misses, the only perception that matters is that the crew has no game awareness and missed the timeout request.
And if, while the official turns around to see who is requesting that timeout (it could be an assistant or someone in the stands right behind the coach) his player gets fouled while releasing the 3 and you miss that, what then?

When there is action on the floor, the #1 priority is the action. I'm not turning my attention away from imminent action to if a coach might be calling timeout.

Being aware of the game just means that, but sometimes you can't turn away from the game in front of you.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 03:14pm
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post

What the officials cannot do is what one poster suggested and ignore the whistle, count the goal, and declare the game over. That's wrong by rule. The game clock must stop when the whistle is sounded.

Yes, this can easily be done by rule. The whistle is blowing as the horn starts to sound. Game over. Whistle is too late to stop the clock. It is that simple. Don't worry though, you will still be the first person I call if I ever need some rules help.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 04:25pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
It should. If it was blown prior to time expiring, then there will be time left on the game clock.
The officials can rule this play one of two ways.
1. The time-out was properly requested prior to the player control ending, but acknowledged a little late. Restore time to when the whistle sounded and white has the ball for a sideline throw-in.
2. The time-out request was not heard and properly granted until after the try was released, in which case the goal counts. The whistle still stops the clock and the team is still charged with the time-out which was requested, but erroneously granted. (It's erroneously granted in this case because it was acknowledged at point when it should not have been--there was no player control.) Resume the game at the POI = endline throw-in for Green.

What the officials cannot do is what one poster suggested and ignore the whistle, count the goal, and declare the game over. That's wrong by rule. The game clock must stop when the whistle is sounded.
I mean the fact that the whistle doesn't blow until the shot's in the air means nothing to me - I'm still granting the timeout if I acknowledged it (before I get air in the whistle) before the shot's in the air.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 04:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: St. Louis Metro
Posts: 11
Assuming that the officials got it right with the granted timeout with time on the clock,
what scenarios would you T up the Home team player for hanging on the rim during a time out?
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2014, 05:14pm
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,734
So he gets the time out and the best play he draws up is a half court heave? I half expected it to go in.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Video Request Indiana Miami: Foul causes a travel (Video Added) Sharpshooternes Basketball 12 Fri May 24, 2013 04:44pm
Video Request: Michigan v. Florida (Video Added) JRutledge Basketball 11 Mon Apr 01, 2013 06:43am
Video request: OVC Title game Murray St. vs. Belmont (Video Added) JRutledge Basketball 8 Sat Mar 23, 2013 06:18pm
Video Request: Minn vs. UCLA (Video Added) JRutledge Basketball 9 Sat Mar 23, 2013 01:47pm
jump ball plenty of contact no foul Sideline Ref Basketball 6 Wed Jan 17, 2001 03:12pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1