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-   -   Had a 1st last night (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97192-had-1st-last-night.html)

AremRed Wed Feb 05, 2014 04:40pm
I say nothing. The faster I throw the ball up the fewer problems there are. Game on.

Toren Wed Feb 05, 2014 04:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by REFANDUMP (Post 921417)
Working a girls varsity game as U1 in a 3 person crew. We got ready to start the game and the visiting team players outside the jump circle start running counterclockwise in a circle about 6' outside the jump circle. We were startled for a minute waiting for them to set, and the coach started hollering "let's go". We tossed the ball, they won the tap and off we went.
After the game, we questioned whether this was legal or not, but determined it was, as all players were not within 3' of the circle. Has anyone else seen this before, and do you agree that this is legal ??
Only problem I see is the coach hollering "let's go".

We start when we're ready, not when you're ready.

PG_Ref Wed Feb 05, 2014 06:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 921430)
I usually say "pick a spot" rather than "hold your spots" as it is technically more correct. I'm saying this to give notice that I am ready to toss the ball and the jump ball restrictions are in place. After "picking a spot", any legal movement is permitted.

Regarding "Let it hit the rim" ... I almost never say anything, but if I feel like a reminder is needed, I simply say "Let it hit". "Let it hit the rim" in incorrect as the ball hitting the backboard would end the restrictions.

Regarding the original post ... I came up two possible reasons why this could be illegal.
1) Are they changing positions around the center restraining circle? [Anyone know of a case play/definition that explains clarified what "around the restraining circle means? Is it 3 feet as in the OP? I can't find it.]
2) Are they taking a position in an occupied space?
caseplay:


6.3.2 SITUATION:

The referee is ready to toss the ball to start the game. (a) A1 who was on the center restraining circle backs off; (b) B1 moves onto the *restraining circle into an unoccupied spot; (c) B2 moves off the circle and goes behind A2 and is within 3 feet of the circle; or (d) B3 moves off the circle about 5 feet and moves around behind A3 and A4 who are occupying spaces on the *circle.

RULING: Legal in (a) and (d), but a violation in both (b) and (c). Moving off the restraining circle in (a), and around the circle when more than 3 feet away as in (d), is permissible. It is a violation to move onto the circle as in (b), until the ball leaves the official's hand, or into an occupied space as in (c), until the ball is touched. The violation by B results in a throw-in for Team A. (4-3)

constable Wed Feb 05, 2014 06:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 921430)
I usually say "pick a spot" rather than "hold your spots" as it is technically more correct. I'm saying this to give notice that I am ready to toss the ball and the jump ball restrictions are in place. After "picking a spot", any legal movement is permitted.

Regarding "Let it hit the rim" ... I almost never say anything, but if I feel like a reminder is needed, I simply say "Let it hit". "Let it hit the rim" in incorrect as the ball hitting the backboard would end the restrictions.

Regarding the original post ... I came up two possible reasons why this could be illegal.
1) Are they changing positions around the center restraining circle? [Anyone know of a case play/definition that explains clarified what "around the restraining circle means? Is it 3 feet as in the OP? I can't find it.]
2) Are they taking a position in an occupied space?

I use similar jargon. I officiate FIBA. Many of our players play both FED and FIBA rules so it is a good reminder for the crew as well as the players.

Zoochy Wed Feb 05, 2014 06:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 921448)
I was being sarcastic. We have guys who say things like this, and worse.
Sorry, I didn't pick up that you were sarcastic.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Feb 05, 2014 06:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatteryPowered (Post 921438)
What about 6-3-2(b)?

When discussing the administration of a Jump-ball it states that when the official is ready and until the ball is tossed, nonjumpers shall not ( a ) Move onto the center restraining circle ( b ) Change position around the center restraining circle.

Sounds like 4 players were changing positions to me.

They were not changing positions "around the center restraining circle" because they were more than three feet from the center restraining circle.

MTD, Sr.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Feb 05, 2014 06:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 921448)
I was being sarcastic. We have guys who say things like this, and worse.

Boy I am glad you admitted to that because you had be almost have a heart attack.

MTD, Sr.

HokiePaul Wed Feb 05, 2014 07:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 921453)
Is it? How about the players ten feet away from the circle? Do they have to pick a spot, or can they just keep running around?
I think so... There is no time component to that ststement. Although after thinking about it, I like "find a spot" better. Telling someone to pick/find a spot is sort of meaningless. They can "pick/find" the spot that they are currently in -- everyone is always on a spot on the floor-- and then move legally. I'm accomplishing the goal of administering the toss without implying a restriction that doesn't exist as "Hold your spot" does.

BillyMac Wed Feb 05, 2014 07:16pm
Wow, That BillyMac Really Is A Remarkably Handsome Guy ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 921475)
Sorry, I didn't pick up that you were sarcastic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 921478)
Boy I am glad you admitted to that because you had be almost have a heart attack.
Maybe I should Skype my posts so that you could hear the tone of my voice, and see my facial expression. I don't do smilies, and good Forum members don't use the blue font method.

BillyMac Wed Feb 05, 2014 07:20pm
Game On ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 921481)
Telling someone to pick/find a spot is sort of meaningless.
Agree. So why say anything that's meaningless? Just do what Adam, and AremRed do:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 921440)
I don't say anything. I blow the whistle, step in, and toss the ball after I spit my whistle out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 921455)
I say nothing. The faster I throw to ball up the fewer problems there are. Game on.

HokiePaul Thu Feb 06, 2014 08:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 921483)
Agree. So why say anything that's meaningless? Just do what Adam, and AremRed do:
Sometimes I do ... If everyone is legal when I'm ready to start, then I usually do just go whistle, color, direction, toss.

Saying "find a spot" is meaningless in the sense that it is impossible to not comply and it doesn't contridict any rule, but it can help with speeding up the administration and avoiding a jump ball violation when there are multiple players shuffling around the circle prior to the jump.

grunewar Thu Feb 06, 2014 09:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 921482)
Maybe I should Skype my posts so that you could hear the tone of my voice, and see my facial expression.
Not sure anyone wants to see this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 921482)
I don't do smilies, and good Forum members don't use the blue font method.
And this has something to do with you, how? ;)

Rich Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 921526)
Sometimes I do ... If everyone is legal when I'm ready to start, then I usually do just go whistle, color, direction, toss.

Saying "find a spot" is meaningless in the sense that it is impossible to not comply and it doesn't contridict any rule, but it can help with speeding up the administration and avoiding a jump ball violation when there are multiple players shuffling around the circle prior to the jump.
Why not skip the color and direction, too?

I hit the whistle, step in, and toss it up.

Raymond Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 921526)
Sometimes I do ... If everyone is legal when I'm ready to start, then I usually do just go whistle, color, direction, toss.

Saying "find a spot" is meaningless in the sense that it is impossible to not comply and it doesn't contridict any rule, but it can help with speeding up the administration and avoiding a jump ball violation when there are multiple players shuffling around the circle prior to the jump.
Whistle, as I walk in I tell jumpers to be ready b/c I don't bounce the ball, toss.

I stopped doing color/direction.

Adam Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 921526)
Sometimes I do ... If everyone is legal when I'm ready to start, then I usually do just go whistle, color, direction, toss.

Saying "find a spot" is meaningless in the sense that it is impossible to not comply and it doesn't contridict any rule, but it can help with speeding up the administration and avoiding a jump ball violation when there are multiple players shuffling around the circle prior to the jump.
To me, "find a spot" implies they need to find a spot and hold it. I don't see how it's substantively different from "hold your spots."


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