Had a 1st last night
 

Working a girls varsity game as U1 in a 3 person crew. We got ready to start the game and the visiting team players outside the jump circle start running counterclockwise in a circle about 6' outside the jump circle. We were startled for a minute waiting for them to set, and the coach started hollering "let's go". We tossed the ball, they won the tap and off we went.
After the game, we questioned whether this was legal or not, but determined it was, as all players were not within 3' of the circle. Has anyone else seen this before, and do you agree that this is legal ??

If you guys agreed on the bolded part, what is there that would make it illegal?

Nothing that we could figure. Just wanted input as to if we may have overlooked something.

Duck, Duck, Goose ...
 

Why not just say, "Hold your spots."? That should have stopped them in their tracks. I've heard many other officials say that. I don't know why they say it, they just do. Kind of like saying, "Let it hit the rim", before a free throw.

I usually say "pick a spot" rather than "hold your spots" as it is technically more correct. I'm saying this to give notice that I am ready to toss the ball and the jump ball restrictions are in place. After "picking a spot", any legal movement is permitted.

Regarding "Let it hit the rim" ... I almost never say anything, but if I feel like a reminder is needed, I simply say "Let it hit". "Let it hit the rim" in incorrect as the ball hitting the backboard would end the restrictions.

Regarding the original post ... I came up two possible reasons why this could be illegal.
1) Are they changing positions around the center restraining circle? [Anyone know of a case play/definition that explains clarified what "around the restraining circle means? Is it 3 feet as in the OP? I can't find it.]
2) Are they taking a position in an occupied space?

Jump Ball- What if you say "Hold your spots" and they legally move? Do you call a violation? :eek:
Free Throw- What if you say "Don't move until it hits" and they move into the paint area. Or move backwards behind another player? Do you call a violation?

That is why you do not tell them to '"Hold your spots" on a Jump ball.
HokiePaul has a better phrase, "Pick a spot". :)

What about 6-3-2(b)?

When discussing the administration of a Jump-ball it states that when the official is ready and until the ball is tossed, nonjumpers shall not ( a ) Move onto the center restraining circle ( b ) Change position around the center restraining circle.

Sounds like 4 players were changing positions to me.

I don't say anything. I blow the whistle, step in, and toss the ball after I spit my whistle out.

Not around the circle they weren't.

My bad...misread the situation. :(

Yes

Please Don't Make Me Break Out The Blue Font ...
 

I was being sarcastic. We have guys who say things like this, and worse.

With Apologies To Maxwell smart, Secret Agent 86 ...
 

It's the old hit the backboard first, and then the rim, trick. Oldest trick in the book.

Duck, Duck, Goose ...
 

Is it? How about the players ten feet away from the circle? Do they have to pick a spot, or can they just keep running around?

Where Have You Been All These Years ...
 

My long lost twin.

I say nothing. The faster I throw the ball up the fewer problems there are. Game on.

Only problem I see is the coach hollering "let's go".

We start when we're ready, not when you're ready.

caseplay:


6.3.2 SITUATION:

The referee is ready to toss the ball to start the game. (a) A1 who was on the center restraining circle backs off; (b) B1 moves onto the *restraining circle into an unoccupied spot; (c) B2 moves off the circle and goes behind A2 and is within 3 feet of the circle; or (d) B3 moves off the circle about 5 feet and moves around behind A3 and A4 who are occupying spaces on the *circle.

RULING: Legal in (a) and (d), but a violation in both (b) and (c). Moving off the restraining circle in (a), and around the circle when more than 3 feet away as in (d), is permissible. It is a violation to move onto the circle as in (b), until the ball leaves the official's hand, or into an occupied space as in (c), until the ball is touched. The violation by B results in a throw-in for Team A. (4-3)

I use similar jargon. I officiate FIBA. Many of our players play both FED and FIBA rules so it is a good reminder for the crew as well as the players.

Sorry, I didn't pick up that you were sarcastic.

They were not changing positions "around the center restraining circle" because they were more than three feet from the center restraining circle.

MTD, Sr.

Boy I am glad you admitted to that because you had be almost have a heart attack.

MTD, Sr.

I think so... There is no time component to that ststement. Although after thinking about it, I like "find a spot" better. Telling someone to pick/find a spot is sort of meaningless. They can "pick/find" the spot that they are currently in -- everyone is always on a spot on the floor-- and then move legally. I'm accomplishing the goal of administering the toss without implying a restriction that doesn't exist as "Hold your spot" does.

Wow, That BillyMac Really Is A Remarkably Handsome Guy ...
 

Maybe I should Skype my posts so that you could hear the tone of my voice, and see my facial expression. I don't do smilies, and good Forum members don't use the blue font method.

Game On ...
 

Agree. So why say anything that's meaningless? Just do what Adam, and AremRed do:

Sometimes I do ... If everyone is legal when I'm ready to start, then I usually do just go whistle, color, direction, toss.

Saying "find a spot" is meaningless in the sense that it is impossible to not comply and it doesn't contridict any rule, but it can help with speeding up the administration and avoiding a jump ball violation when there are multiple players shuffling around the circle prior to the jump.

Not sure anyone wants to see this.

And this has something to do with you, how? ;)

Why not skip the color and direction, too?

I hit the whistle, step in, and toss it up.

Whistle, as I walk in I tell jumpers to be ready b/c I don't bounce the ball, toss.

I stopped doing color/direction.

To me, "find a spot" implies they need to find a spot and hold it. I don't see how it's substantively different from "hold your spots."

Plus, we have a U1/U2 who are responsible to ensure non-jumpers are legal. I don't worry about it; if someone is does something illegal I expect a whistle from one of my partners.

I just tell the jumpers "one bounce, then it is going up" and toss.

Acknowledge captains by asking if they are ready.
Whistle.
I don't like getting hit on the jump so if they are crowding me, I say, "Gimme some room, I'm going up high with this one."


As to the OP, the running around and the coach saying to get started is just a coach trying to show he knows one rule. No reason for it, just stupid.

Seems to be the standard in my association.

I do think it can be a good reminder too when you have weird colors. For example, first time I saw the "pink" awareness uniforms, I would have probably called "pink" had the R not designated them as "white" at the jump. I've also seen very dark purple uniforms be called both "black" or "blue". I see absolutely no downside to it either.

I would not want to tell them that, I would not want them to "steal" the tip.

I just tell them, "I need the middle" so they give me enough room to bounce the ball. Then after I determine how many times I choose to bounce the ball, I throw it up without telegraphing the toss. Most jumpers are surprised that I was going to throw it up.

Peace

Changing pink to white? Quite frankly, that's dopey.

I'm assuming the R decided that we should maintain the "Home/White" standard. And it was a "light pink"

I didn't think anything of it at the time, but would everyone else keep "Pink" as the home team color?

I prefer the basic, 1 syllable colors: blue/black/white/green/gold/red.

I get by fine with those. Had a timer joke the other day that we need to call the visiting team "Teal", b/c that was her favorite color. We went with Blue.

I've been an R many times and the color we're going to call a team has never come up in conversation.

I know for a fact that I will use "orange" and one of my regular partners refuses to use "orange" so I'm guessing that he says "red" and I say "orange" -- it's never caused a lick of confusion.

No controversy with pink -- it's one syllable!

This is a tricky one. I believe the no call is correct because in the case study books it states a player can more around the cirlce when more they are at least 3 feet away from the center circle. The coach read the casebook and applied the loop hole...we will probably see this disconnect corrected in future rule books because this is clearly a distraction and a potential safty hazard to everyone on the floor. Wow...good one! Thanks

Why? They didn't violate any rule. Who cares what they do before/during the jump?

It would be a solution in search of a problem.

It's not:
1) a loophole
2) a safety hazard

It might be distracting, but it shouldn't be and isn't illegal just because it is.

Teams run a similar play during action and during throw-ins. They have never been discussed (afaik) as being removed from the game.

If it were, they'd have to outlaw motion offenses too.

I always designate one-syllable colors at the jump and I prefer that the R do it when I don't toss. It is a short confirmation of the colors we are calling and affirming the "call" colors when we start sets them in my addled brain and helps make the nomenclature of the day automatic and the OOB and backcourt calls crisp. But then, I've always considered multi-tasking to be a fad.

Eh. I'm not saying red when the team's orange even if you'd prefer it. Designating colors is completely unnecessary.

Loop hole? A loop hole would imply that there is an unintended, unforeseen aspect in the rule that was not thought about. As far a safety hazard, how is this any more of a safety hazard then at any other time when players are constantly in motion?