5th foul sub mechanic

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rich

There's no honor in throwing gasoline on an already-established fire.

Just sayin'.

I don't get this sentiment. We inform the coach as we need to. Why do we have to censor ourselves because the coach can't control his emotions? This is not adding gasoline. Adding gasoline would be going over and saying something dumb to the coach.

I have been told two things involving this procedure. First, instruct the timer in the pregame to give you a signal for 20 seconds, but not buzz the horn. That gives you freedom to avoid a technical, at least for a bit. Second, don't approach the coach. If he wants to come to you and he has to come out of the coaching box. Both things give an extra layer of insulation.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I have been told two things involving this procedure. First, instruct the timer in the pregame to give you a signal for 20 seconds, but not buzz the horn. That gives you freedom to avoid a technical, at least for a bit. Second, don't approach the coach. If he wants to come to you and he has to come out of the coaching box. Both things give an extra layer of insulation.

This contradicts the rules.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by AremRed

First, instruct the timer in the pregame to give you a signal for 20 seconds, but not buzz the horn. That gives you freedom to avoid a technical, at least for a bit.

That's a really bad idea.

First, as deecee already said, it goes against what the rule book says.

Second, the Coach knows (or should) that he has 20 seconds and will be listening for that horn.

And I really don't get the whole "avoid the technical" thinking here...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...the Coach knows that he has 20 seconds ...

rockyroad: You give coaches way too much credit. A few weeks ago, I had a coach ask for his thirty seconds to replace a disqualified player. Silly monkey.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

rockyroad: You give coaches way too much credit. A few weeks ago, I had a coach ask for his thirty seconds to replace a disqualified player. Silly monkey.

At least he knew there was a time limit...and when the horn sounds, he knows he is running out of time!

Originally Posted by deecee

This contradicts the rules.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

First, as deecee already said, it goes against what the rule book says.

Can you give me the citation that says the timer must sound the horn at the expiration of the 20 seconds?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Can you give me the citation that says the timer must sound the horn at the expiration of the 20 seconds?

2.12.5 Ruling (c)

Originally Posted by Welpe

2.12.5 Ruling (c)

Good find. They should have written that into 2-15-5 in the first place. Wouldn't be too hard.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't get this sentiment. We inform the coach as we need to. Why do we have to censor ourselves because the coach can't control his emotions? This is not adding gasoline. Adding gasoline would be going over and saying something dumb to the coach.

I am with you, I do not get this attitude. We have the right to do our job and the coach is in control of their attitude or what they say.

And I do not think telling a coach they have a player with 5 fouls does anything either way if a coach wants to get at you. They could yell across the court and that behavior has to be addressed too.

And telling a coach that a player has 5 fouls does not mean you have to get in their fact. I stay at the table for the most part and make sure the sub comes. I am often 20 feet away from a coach when this takes place. Often the coach already knows they fouled out and they are trying to call their players over to take advantage of the 20 seconds.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

Adding gasoline would be going over and saying something dumb to the coach.

Which, in some cases might be, "That's 25's fifth foul coach".

If the official knows, for sure, that saying this will further exacerbate this situation, based on some previous comments by the coach, why "push it" if the mechanics set that one works under allows an option that may avoid a technical foul, or an ejection.

If you have this tool in your toolbelt (some might not), and don't use it, that's the same as saying "something dumb", maybe, at its absolute worst, a form of baiting.

We're smarter than coaches. Let's prove it.

I can't speak about NFHS mechanics, but IAABO offers an option for a reason. If there was not reason for the option, IAABO wouldn't offer it.

As I've said in the past, I've never used this option in my thirty-three years, but I like to have it in my "game management" toolbelt, because I may want to use it tomorrow night.

Along similar lines, this (following) is always part of my pregame, and, unlike the fifth foul situation, I use this one: If one of us calls a technical foul on a coach, the noncalling official will remind the coach that he must sit down.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Which, in some cases might be, "That's 25's fifth foul coach".

If this is what sets the coach off then that is on him 100%. This is not a dumb statement, but one of fact. As long as we implement mechanics to acquiesce to coaches who are upset we have no business complaining about coaches behavior. We either choose to deal with it or we don't.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

If this is what sets the coach off then that is on him 100%. This is not a dumb statement, but one of fact. As long as we implement mechanics to acquiesce to coaches who are upset we have no business complaining about coaches behavior. We either choose to deal with it or we don't.

It might be a dumb statement if you know, 100% for sure, that it's going to "set him off". Why not avoid it, why bait him into a technical foul, when it can be avoided? I hope that you're not of those officials who puts notches on his pistol grip.

I know that there are not a lot of IAABO-philes out there, even among IAABO members, but there has to be a reason why this option is in the book. What's the NFHS say?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It might be a dumb statement if you know, 100% for sure, that it's going to "set him off". Why not avoid it, why bait him into a technical foul, when it can be avoided? I hope that you're not of those officials who puts notches on his pistol grip.

I know that there are not a lot of IAABO-philes out there, even among IAABO members, but there has to be a reason why this option is in the book. What's the NFHS say?

I don't notch my belt, this year I have 3 T's all on players. This isn't baiting. Doing your job and baiting are 2 different things Billy. I don't "try" to avoid technical fouls. I just do my job and if they happen they happen. I cannot control how a coach or player reacts anymore than I can control what my significant other is cooking for dinner.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

... anymore than I can control what my significant other is cooking for dinner.

Hey honey, how about pork chops, and applesauce, tonight?