5th foul sub mechanic

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It might be a dumb statement if you know, 100% for sure, that it's going to "set him off". Why not avoid it, why bait him into a technical foul, when it can be avoided? I hope that you're not of those officials who puts notches on his pistol grip.

I know that there are not a lot of IAABO-philes out there, even among IAABO members, but there has to be a reason why this option is in the book. What's the NFHS say?

I don't notch my belt, this year I have 3 T's all on players. This isn't baiting. Doing your job and baiting are 2 different things Billy. I don't "try" to avoid technical fouls. I just do my job and if they happen they happen. I cannot control how a coach or player reacts anymore than I can control what my significant other is cooking for dinner.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It seems some are advocating bending over backward to avoid having to issue a technical foul.

Not me. Not in thirty-three years. Why? Because I don't want to let the coach perceive that I can be intimidated, as I run away from him to the other side of the court, and let him deal with my partner.

But it's a game management tool that IAABO gives us. And it may be a good tool for some hot headed officials. Yes, there are hot headed officials, just as there are hot headed coaches. And maybe it's a good idea for a hot headed official to remove himself from the vicinity of the coach, and take a few breaths while his partner deals with the coach.

I often use the "remind the coach he can't stand" option. I'm occasionally pissed when I charge a technical foul to a coach. Maybe I need to go administer a few free throws, and calm down, even when I'm not supposed to switch that way. Do others employ this form of game management?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

... anymore than I can control what my significant other is cooking for dinner.

Hey honey, how about pork chops, and applesauce, tonight?

Originally Posted by deecee

This contradicts the rules.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

First, as deecee already said, it goes against what the rule book says.

Can you give me the citation that says the timer must sound the horn at the expiration of the 20 seconds?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

rockyroad: You give coaches way too much credit. A few weeks ago, I had a coach ask for his thirty seconds to replace a disqualified player. Silly monkey.

At least he knew there was a time limit...and when the horn sounds, he knows he is running out of time!

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't find myself agreeing with you on this part of the game very often ... but I sure do here. We don't need to put as much effort in deciding what will or will not set off a coach as some seem to be intimating. If a coach just HAS to get that T, he will do so. Preventative officating here (as everywhere) is fine, but it seems some are advocating bending over backward to avoid having to issue a technical foul. I don't see that. If the guy's that borderline, let him have his T - sometimes that's the most efficient way to cool a hothead anyway.

Agreed...it's almost as if we think calling a T is somehow a failure on our part. "Oh no, I've called a T. What did I do wrong to cause this???? If only I had let my partner be the one to tell the Coach..."

T'd an Assistant Coach last Friday for standing up and yelling at my Partner's back...T'd a Head Coach Monday for screaming at me about a travel call...in both cases, after they had calmed down, the Coach wanted to know why I was mad at them. I responded the same both times - "Coach, I am not mad. There was no anger on my part at all."

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Can you give me the citation that says the timer must sound the horn at the expiration of the 20 seconds?

2.12.5 Ruling (c)

Originally Posted by Welpe

2.12.5 Ruling (c)

Good find. They should have written that into 2-15-5 in the first place. Wouldn't be too hard.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't really care about how much money I look like. I care about doing my job. Perception is different from the vantage point of who is doing the perceiving. I believe in facts and repercussions. I'm not a teenager that needs my partner to step in to handle the big scary coach. The coach's actions are what determines punishment, not mine. I will not run from my responsibility and I will not placate a coach simply to "avoid" a confrontation. Half the onus is on him too, and this is not "avoiding the unmanageable" this is just doing your job.

If I bait the coach, then shame on me. If the coach wants to say something stupid that may or may not earn him a T, then that's on him. Perception and facts are two very different things, and I hope your assignor knows the difference.

So you think it's your job to tell the coach his player fouls out, as the calling official? Isn't that a crew responsibility?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Toren

So you think it's your job to tell the coach his player fouls out, as the calling official? Isn't that a crew responsibility?

I'm already at the table reporting the foul, so yes! If it happens that it's a 3 man game and the table is late to inform us and I am opposite the table then whomever is close can do the honors. Other than that just do your damn job and stop being concerned with players/coaches feelings, it actually makes officiating much much much much much much much easier.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by deecee

I'm already at the table reporting the foul, so yes! If it happens that it's a 3 man game and the table is late to inform us and I am opposite the table then whomever is close can do the honors. Other than that just do your damn job and stop being concerned with players/coaches feelings, it actually makes officiating much much much much much much much easier.

Then your job is pretty hard.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Toren

Then your job is pretty hard.

Yeah ... those 5-6 extra words the 10 times a week someone fouls out is downright exhausting...

[Toren]

Originally Posted by deecee

I'm already at the table reporting the foul, so yes! If it happens that it's a 3 man game and the table is late to inform us and I am opposite the table then whomever is close can do the honors. Other than that just do your damn job and stop being concerned with players/coaches feelings, it actually makes officiating much much much much much much much easier.

I find this whole tirade fairly interesting.

You say you are at the table already reporting the foul. I didn't know we walked up to the table to report a foul. The new Trail is also there, so they are easily also capable of handling it.

Around these parts, I hand out more technicals than most. Those things call themselves. Letting my partner who is the Trail handle the 5th foul administration doesn't mean I'm not doing my job. It means I believe in crew concepts at all times. It's not me on court, it's us on the court.

But you do you.


As an edit: I'm on the men's side, so we go opposite table. So the trail is always table side.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Toren

Then your job is pretty hard.

To me officiating, like anything else in life, is as difficult as I let it be. Like I said earlier, and this is one of my views on life, I have 0/no/none/zilch/nada control over other peoples emotions/feelings/behavior and I do not care about how they "may" react. Informing a coach about anything is just part of the job, and I don't think or see it necessary, as an adult to hand that responsibility over to my partner because I am "scared" of a little confrontation.

I mean some of the excuses and reasons being thrown around reminds me of the sheepish kid who doesn't want to make eye contact with their parents because they fear getting scolded. If you are a good official then you have NO problem dealing with and addressing a coach when needed and penalizing him when warranted. You also don't need your partner to ride in on his white horse. This to me undermines *your* authority in a major way.

**DISCLAIMER** Above is my opinion and sentiment on how adults should act and officials should officiate. These views are not of officiating.com or any of it's subsidiaries.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by deecee

To me officiating, like anything else in life, is as difficult as I let it be. Like I said earlier, and this is one of my views on life, I have 0/no/none/zilch/nada control over other peoples emotions/feelings/behavior and I do not care about how they "may" react. Informing a coach about anything is just part of the job, and I don't think or see it necessary, as an adult to hand that responsibility over to my partner because I am "scared" of a little confrontation.

I mean some of the excuses and reasons being thrown around reminds me of the sheepish kid who doesn't want to make eye contact with their parents because they fear getting scolded. If you are a good official then you have NO problem dealing with and addressing a coach when needed and penalizing him when warranted. You also don't need your partner to ride in on his white horse. This to me undermines *your* authority in a major way.

**DISCLAIMER** Above is my opinion and sentiment on how adults should act and officials should officiate. These views are not of officiating.com or any of it's subsidiaries.

Before I'm done with this thread one question.

Why do you keep using the word "scared"? or big scary coach?

You are the only one that used it in this thread. They call that projection in many circles.