5th foul sub mechanic

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by CoachNRef

#10 incurs 5th and is a shooting foul. Is sub brought in before or after 1st foul shot?

Before.


Table notifies you that it's the player's 5th foul.
You notify the coach that it's the player's 5th foul (at this point, the player is considered bench personnel for purposes of Technical Fouls and such).
You tell the table to start the 20-second replacement interval.
Coach sends in a substitute for fouled-out player, substitute enters game. (If there are any other substitutes waiting to enter, bring them in at this point also).

[bballref3966]

If he doesn't make a sub available right away, order timer to time "20 seconds, give a horn after 5," and stand on the division line between sideline and center circle.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

If he doesn't make a sub available right away, order timer to time "20 seconds, give a horn after 5," and stand on the division line between sideline and center circle.

I don't even wait. "Coach, that's 5. Timer, go." No time to stand anywhere, cause the warning horn is at 5 seconds and that interval is stressed by me in my pregame with the timer. There's no time for a free timeout if a fifth foul is handled properly.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't even wait. "Coach, that's 5. Timer, go." No time to stand anywhere, cause the warning horn is at 5 seconds and that interval is stressed by me in my pregame with the timer. There's no time for a free timeout if a fifth foul is handled properly.

To tag onto your comment. I don't rush to start clock nor do I take my time. I try and say start the clock loud enough that coach is aware. I grab the extra seconds by making sure partners are aware, either in bounding or at the line.

That said, I had a game with Bob the other night and probably did none of the above.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fullor30

To tag onto your comment. I don't rush to start clock nor do I take my time. I try and say start the clock loud enough that coach is aware. I grab the extra seconds by making sure partners are aware, either in bounding or at the line.

That said, I had a game with Bob the other night and probably did none of the above.

The table notifies me. I turn to the coach, say "That's 5." Then I start the clock from the same position, THEN I make sure my partners and player know. By then, we've already had the first horn and a sub better be on the way to the table to report.

If the team has enough time to, essentially, have a free 30-second timeout, I'm not doing my job.

[Toren]

I actually pre-game who is going to administer the 5th foul.

In these parts, we go opposite table, so the calling official will be the new C. The trail sometimes handles the 5th foul administration and the new C will just go away.

Or occassionally the new C will stay and finish out the administration.

I don't really have a preference, but I like to know before the game who is doing what.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Toren

I actually pre-game who is going to administer the 5th foul.

In these parts, we go opposite table, so the calling official will be the new C. The trail sometimes handles the 5th foul administration and the new C will just go away.

Or occassionally the new C will stay and finish out the administration.

I don't really have a preference, but I like to know before the game who is doing what.

My pregame (when I remember) is "If it's a problem, go away and let someone else deal with it. If they're just fouling to stop the clock and everyone knows it, stay and deal with it."

It's just not that hard to adjust.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Before.


Table notifies you that it's the player's 5th foul.
You notify the coach that it's the player's 5th foul (at this point, the player is considered bench personnel for purposes of Technical Fouls and such).
You tell the table to start the 20-second replacement interval.
Coach sends in a substitute for fouled-out player, substitute enters game. (If there are any other substitutes waiting to enter, bring them in at this point also).

Also need to notify your partners that the player is disqualified so that your partners don't start administering the free throws or throw-in. Also, supposed to notifiy the disqualified player after starting the 20-second clock.

[JRutledge]

Does anyone always make an attempt to have the non-calling official do the administration or informing the coach and starting the clock?

I was just wondering because when we first went table side under the mechanics, many people were always trying to tell the coach through the non-calling official. Now, no one cares anymore. It makes absolutely no difference to me other than saying time, but most of the time in my games or with my partners the calling official tells the coach.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Does anyone always make an attempt to have the non-calling official do the administration or informing the coach and starting the clock?

From my pregame: Game management: If I call a fifth foul on a player, I’ll tell the coach, unless I think it’s going to be a problem.

And, at least up until now, it's never been a problem.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From my pregame: Game management: If I call a fifth foul on a player, I’ll tell the coach, unless I think it’s going to be a problem.

And, at least up until now, it's never been a problem.

What's the problem? You trying to do your job and a coach who can't control himself acting like a fool? I'll inform the coach/table/player on all 5th fouls that I call. I don't care if a coach is a "problem" or not. That's my job to deal with it.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by deecee

What's the problem? You trying to do your job and a coach who can't control himself acting like a fool? I'll inform the coach/table/player on all 5th fouls that I call. I don't care if a coach is a "problem" or not. That's my job to deal with it.

There's a pretty good saying that I like

Manage the unavoidable and
Avoid the unmanageable.

This sometimes falls under the second one. If a coach is really going to go off, it looks like money if the non-calling official whacks him. If I just made the call and then I go and tell the coach and then I whack him...that might be perceived as my issue.

Just food for thought.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Toren

There's a pretty good saying that I like

Manage the unavoidable and
Avoid the unmanageable.

This sometimes falls under the second one. If a coach is really going to go off, it looks like money if the non-calling official whacks him. If I just made the call and then I go and tell the coach and then I whack him...that might be perceived as my issue.

Just food for thought.

I don't really care about how much money I look like. I care about doing my job. Perception is different from the vantage point of who is doing the perceiving. I believe in facts and repercussions. I'm not a teenager that needs my partner to step in to handle the big scary coach. The coach's actions are what determines punishment, not mine. I will not run from my responsibility and I will not placate a coach simply to "avoid" a confrontation. Half the onus is on him too, and this is not "avoiding the unmanageable" this is just doing your job.

If I bait the coach, then shame on me. If the coach wants to say something stupid that may or may not earn him a T, then that's on him. Perception and facts are two very different things, and I hope your assignor knows the difference.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

What's the problem? You trying to do your job and a coach who can't control himself acting like a fool? I'll inform the coach/table/player on all 5th fouls that I call. I don't care if a coach is a "problem" or not. That's my job to deal with it.

There's no honor in throwing gasoline on an already-established fire.

Just sayin'.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rich

There's no honor in throwing gasoline on an already-established fire.

Just sayin'.

I don't get this sentiment. We inform the coach as we need to. Why do we have to censor ourselves because the coach can't control his emotions? This is not adding gasoline. Adding gasoline would be going over and saying something dumb to the coach.