Violation: yes or no?

[Raymond]

A1 is dribbling on the move. A1 slips, and as he is falling pushes the ball to the floor and pins it there. While keeping the ball pinned to the floor with his left hand he gets up. After getting back up on 2 feet, A1 picks the ball up. At no point after falling to the ground did A1 ever take his left hand off the ball.

[bainsey]

One hand pinning the ball to the floor is not control. I have nothing.

[APG]

I remember this type of play (or at least tangential) being discussed after Rajon Rando made a play 2-3 years ago in the playoffs involving him pinning the ball to the ground..

Edit:

Here's the discussion:

Why call traveling? It's the NBE.

And here's the play in question from the thread above

[River Ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

One hand pinning the ball to the floor is not control. I have nothing.

I second that nothing.Loose ball secured and player goes with it.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by bainsey

One hand pinning the ball to the floor is not control. I have nothing.

How long would you allow A1 to pin the ball to the floor from an inbound pass in the backcourt before you start your ten second count?

[Eastshire]

I can see where you would argue that one hand pinning the ball to the floor isn't "holding the ball" and therefore not control. However, I certainly see it as controlling the ball.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

How long would you allow A1 to pin the ball to the floor from an inbound pass in the backcourt before you start your ten second count?

As long as it takes for him to control it with two hands.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I can see where you would argue that one hand pinning the ball to the floor isn't "holding the ball" and therefore not control. However, I certainly see it as controlling the ball.

If he's not holding it or dribbling it, he's not controlling it by rule.

[westneat]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

How long would you allow A1 to pin the ball to the floor from an inbound pass in the backcourt before you start your ten second count?

I'd start the ten count immediately. A still has team control in the backcourt (established when handed the ball for the throw in).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

How long would you allow A1 to pin the ball to the floor from an inbound pass in the backcourt before you start your ten second count?

At the NCAA level, immediately.

The OP happened in a D3 game I worked Saturday. I was trail in front of the defensive team's HC and A1 had just left my primary, but I still saw what happened. Coach yelled out for a travel right away, and I told him that A1 didn't have the ball in his hand when he got up.

At halftime the on-ball official felt he messed up by not calling a travel.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by westneat

I'd start the ten count immediately. A still has team control in the backcourt (established when handed the ball for the throw in).

But in HS the count doesn't begin until a player has controlled the ball inbounds. (If A2 touches the ball on the throw-in pass and it bounds away for 10 seconds, it's not a violation.)

[Nevadaref]

The player was dribbling, so he already had player control.

Now whether one considers the pin to be part of continuing the dribble, holding the ball, or no control at all would matter to making the decision.

Remember that per an NFHS Case Play a player on the floor in control of the ball may not relinquish control by putting the ball on the floor next to him, get up, and then repossess the ball.

A. A continued dribble clearly is not a travel as one of the fundamentals is that a player may not travel while dribbling.

B. Deeming it holding the ball means not only that getting up is a travel, but that falling to the floor while holding it was already a travel.

C. Control when down, then loss of control, then regain after rising is a travel based upon the Case Play. The only gray area is in judging if the player lost control BEFORE going to the floor. That would make the action legal.

Part C is clearly the most confusing. I would go with B, and contend that this constitutes holding the ball in one hand. To me the dribble ended when the ball came to rest. The rule doesn't state any specific hand position is necessary to cause that.

[westneat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

But in HS the count doesn't begin until a player has controlled the ball inbounds. (If A2 touches the ball on the throw-in pass and it bounds away for 10 seconds, it's not a violation.)

Can you give me a case play or rule citation to back up this assertion? All I've got is 9-8, which says :

"A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds."

That would suggest that the play you described is indeed a violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by westneat

Can you give me a case play or rule citation to back up this assertion? All I've got is 9-8, which says :

"A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds."

That would suggest that the play you described is indeed a violation.

Only after PC has been established inbounds. 9-8 would apply if Team A had the ball in the front court and a pass was deflected into the back court. You would start your count immediately in that case.

[westneat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Only after PC has been established inbounds.

I can't find anything in the book to back this up. Can someone help me out?