FT Situation

[loners4me]

A1 fouls B1 on a shot. 2 shot foul. B1 makes first. Then horn telling us that was A1s 5th foul. A1 is replaced. Do you reshoot 2 throws or just the remaining one?

[ODog]

Just shoot the remaining FT.

A1 is not a disqualified player required to be replaced until an official notifies the head coach he has five fouls.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by loners4me

A1 fouls B1 on a shot. 2 shot foul. B1 makes first. Then horn telling us that was A1s 5th foul. A1 is replaced. Do you reshoot 2 throws or just the remaining one?

What would be the rationale be to wipe out the free throw? What rule would you cite?

By the way you should ignore the coach when he inevitably wants a tech for an 'illegal player' being on the court and doesn't believe your explanation. And no I didn't have this exact situation this year.

[loners4me]

Thanks guys. What if I report foul, table tells me thats 5 on A1. I tell player, coach and tell table to start replacement clock. When I turn around partner has given the ball to B1 and he just made first throw.

Does this change anything?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by loners4me

Thanks guys. What if I report foul, table tells me thats 5 on A1. I tell player, coach and tell table to start replacement clock. When I turn around partner has given the ball to B1 and he just made first throw.

Does this change anything?

The correct sequence after the table notifies you is tell the coach, tell the table to start the 20 second clock, and then tell the player.

I'm probably still counting the FT in this sitch, but I'm having a discussion with partner after the game about game awareness.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by loners4me

Thanks guys. What if I report foul, table tells me thats 5 on A1. I tell player, coach and tell table to start replacement clock. When I turn around partner has given the ball to B1 and he just made first throw.

Does this change anything?

I too would probably allow the first FT. And I too would have a nice chat with my partner.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by loners4me

A1 fouls B1 on a shot. 2 shot foul. B1 makes first. Then horn telling us that was A1s 5th foul. A1 is replaced. Do you reshoot 2 throws or just the remaining one?

case book 4.14.1C. officials error. not correctable.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I too would probably allow the first FT. And I too would have a nice chat with my partner.

Probably? What would make you not allow the first FT?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

case book 4.14.1C.

4.14.1 SITUATION C: A1 is fouled by B2 and is awarded two free throws. The
foul is B2's fifth foul. The new trail official reports the fifth foul to Team B's coach.
Before a substitute is made, the lead official incorrectly permits A1 to attempt the
first free throw. The officials realize the error and huddle to discuss the situation.
RULING: The result of the first attempt shall stand. Team B's head coach shall be
notified of B2's disqualification. Once B2 has been replaced, A1 shall attempt the
second free throw. COMMENT: This is an official's error and not a correctable
error situation according to Rule 2-10. (6-1-2c; 10-5-2; 2-8-3)

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Probably? What would make you not allow the first FT?

I didn't want to imply that I wouldn't possibly make a mistake. Although, chances are I wouldn't in this case.

[Archie Lib]

I'm a rookie and had this happen for the first time last night in a girls JV game after I called a shooting foul and set up at trail for the free throws after reporting.

Just when we were set, I noticed my partner at lead in the motion of offering the first throw just as the table informed me of the 5 fouls. It seemed like a late notification to me. When that short conversation was over the ball was already in the free thrower's hands about to be shot (the shooter is a quick draw). I could have blown my whistle and held play right then but, being new, I decided to let it play. I acknowledged the table and watched my areas just as the try was made.

Once the try was over I blew my whistle, informed the affected head coach and signaled the table to start the 20 second count for a replacement as I motioned the subs in. I kept my hand up, looking at lead to prevent the throw. If he would have begun to offer the ball I probably would have just whistled again to get his attention. But when both my vet partners looked over at me with those "what the hell is the rookie doing" eyebrows raised I held up the five-finger signal and they nodded and waited for the replacement.

The opposing coach had heard the table notification and asked what was going on, but didn't argue for a T. To be honest, I have no idea if it was the way I sold it or if I was right. It seemed like a common sense application to me, but it may have just been rookie luck, which I don't get much of so I'll take it.

During the post-game when I was getting my pointers and critique from the vets, they mentioned this sequence and said often times the only solution is to know who is in foul trouble beforehand and do some preventative officiating with the table. None of our clocks have individual player fouls listed - only team fouls - so this can be challenging.

Would the best decision have been to whistle as soon as I had the notification regardless of where the ball was to prevent an illegal player from being on the floor? My concern as we talked about it afterwards was a scenario where the disqualified player - which I had permitted to remain - had committed a violation on the floor during the first free throw.

Rich

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Archie Lib

Would the best decision be to whistle as soon as I had the notification regardless of where the ball was to prevent an illegal player from being on the floor?

If you're gong to take this route, remember that once the ball is released, it's too late to correct, count the basket. If the ball is only at the disposal of the free thrower, and hasn't yet been released, then then it's not too late to correct. Also, I don't believe that continuous motion applies here.

As kids, when crossing the street, we were taught to, "Stop, look, and listen". In this case, "Stop, look, and whistle".

(Note: The "listen" part of the advice above does not work with a Toyota Prius, something that I need to remember when I'm out running. Stupid, new fangled, electronic cars. Whatever happened to the expression, "Batteries not included"?)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Archie Lib

I'm a rookie and had this happen for the first time last night in a girls JV game after I called a shooting foul and set up at trail for the free throws after reporting.

Just when we were set, I noticed my partner at lead in the motion of offering the first throw just as the table informed me of the 5 fouls. It seemed like a late notification to me. When that short conversation was over the ball was already in the free thrower's hands about to be shot (the shooter is a quick draw). I could have blown my whistle and held play right then but, being new, I decided to let it play. I acknowledged the table and watched my areas just as the try was made.

Once the try was over I blew my whistle, informed the affected head coach and signaled the table to start the 20 second count for a replacement as I motioned the subs in. I kept my hand up, looking at lead to prevent the throw. If he would have begun to offer the ball I probably would have just whistled again to get his attention. But when both my vet partners looked over at me with those "what the hell is the rookie doing" eyebrows raised I held up the five-finger signal and they nodded and waited for the replacement.

The opposing coach had heard the table notification and asked what was going on, but didn't argue for a T. To be honest, I have no idea if it was the way I sold it or if I was right. It seemed like a common sense application to me, but it may have just been rookie luck, which I don't get much of so I'll take it.

During the post-game when I was getting my pointers and critique from the vets, they mentioned this sequence and said often times the only solution is to know who is in foul trouble beforehand and do some preventative officiating with the table. None of our clocks have individual player fouls listed - only team fouls - so this can be challenging.

Would the best decision be to whistle as soon as I had the notification regardless of where the ball was to prevent an illegal player from being on the floor? My concern as we talked about it afterwards was a scenario were the disqualified player - which I had permitted to remain - had committed a violation on the floor during the first free throw.

Rich

If the shooter has the ball for the first shot, I'd let her shoot and do it just like you did it.

[Adam]

Billy, how did you quote the wrong poster?