FT Situation

[loners4me]

Thanks guys. What if I report foul, table tells me thats 5 on A1. I tell player, coach and tell table to start replacement clock. When I turn around partner has given the ball to B1 and he just made first throw.

Does this change anything?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by loners4me

Thanks guys. What if I report foul, table tells me thats 5 on A1. I tell player, coach and tell table to start replacement clock. When I turn around partner has given the ball to B1 and he just made first throw.

Does this change anything?

The correct sequence after the table notifies you is tell the coach, tell the table to start the 20 second clock, and then tell the player.

I'm probably still counting the FT in this sitch, but I'm having a discussion with partner after the game about game awareness.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

The correct sequence after the table notifies you is tell the coach, tell the table to start the 20 second clock, and then tell the player.

Has telling the player always been a part of the proper administration?

I just tell the coach, then tell the timer to start the clock. The End.

The coach takes it from there.

I have noticed more so than ever this season the phenomenon of partners frantically telling the player they've fouled out: "Hey 21, you have 5. 21! 21! You have five. (Still can't get 21's attention). Umm, 21, you have 5."

All while I'm standing there praying for them to just tell the coach before I'm forced to say, "Tell the coach."

Is there actually a "tell the player" requirement?

Originally Posted by ODog

Is there actually a "tell the player" requirement?

NFHS Officials Manual 3.4.2.H.1

"The new table side (Center or Trail) official shall notify the coach and request the timer to begin the replacement interval, and then notify the disqualified player."

[so cal lurker]

Can I mess with this scenario out of curiosity? Let's assume that A1 fouled B1. After the first shot, the table notices that B1 actually has 5 fouls (no one noticed when it happened). Now what?

My guess is the FT stands, but B1's sub has to take the second.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Can I mess with this scenario out of curiosity? Let's assume that A1 fouled B1. After the first shot, the table notices that B1 actually has 5 fouls (no one noticed when it happened). Now what?

My guess is the FT stands, but B1's sub has to take the second.

Correct.

And, if the table didn't notice until after the second FT, and after several more trips up and down the court in which B1 scored several more points ....

all those would count, too.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by loners4me

Thanks guys. What if I report foul, table tells me thats 5 on A1. I tell player, coach and tell table to start replacement clock. When I turn around partner has given the ball to B1 and he just made first throw.

Does this change anything?

I too would probably allow the first FT. And I too would have a nice chat with my partner.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I too would probably allow the first FT. And I too would have a nice chat with my partner.

Probably? What would make you not allow the first FT?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Probably? What would make you not allow the first FT?

I didn't want to imply that I wouldn't possibly make a mistake. Although, chances are I wouldn't in this case.

[Archie Lib]

I'm a rookie and had this happen for the first time last night in a girls JV game after I called a shooting foul and set up at trail for the free throws after reporting.

Just when we were set, I noticed my partner at lead in the motion of offering the first throw just as the table informed me of the 5 fouls. It seemed like a late notification to me. When that short conversation was over the ball was already in the free thrower's hands about to be shot (the shooter is a quick draw). I could have blown my whistle and held play right then but, being new, I decided to let it play. I acknowledged the table and watched my areas just as the try was made.

Once the try was over I blew my whistle, informed the affected head coach and signaled the table to start the 20 second count for a replacement as I motioned the subs in. I kept my hand up, looking at lead to prevent the throw. If he would have begun to offer the ball I probably would have just whistled again to get his attention. But when both my vet partners looked over at me with those "what the hell is the rookie doing" eyebrows raised I held up the five-finger signal and they nodded and waited for the replacement.

The opposing coach had heard the table notification and asked what was going on, but didn't argue for a T. To be honest, I have no idea if it was the way I sold it or if I was right. It seemed like a common sense application to me, but it may have just been rookie luck, which I don't get much of so I'll take it.

During the post-game when I was getting my pointers and critique from the vets, they mentioned this sequence and said often times the only solution is to know who is in foul trouble beforehand and do some preventative officiating with the table. None of our clocks have individual player fouls listed - only team fouls - so this can be challenging.

Would the best decision have been to whistle as soon as I had the notification regardless of where the ball was to prevent an illegal player from being on the floor? My concern as we talked about it afterwards was a scenario where the disqualified player - which I had permitted to remain - had committed a violation on the floor during the first free throw.

Rich

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Archie Lib

Would the best decision be to whistle as soon as I had the notification regardless of where the ball was to prevent an illegal player from being on the floor?

If you're gong to take this route, remember that once the ball is released, it's too late to correct, count the basket. If the ball is only at the disposal of the free thrower, and hasn't yet been released, then then it's not too late to correct. Also, I don't believe that continuous motion applies here.

As kids, when crossing the street, we were taught to, "Stop, look, and listen". In this case, "Stop, look, and whistle".

(Note: The "listen" part of the advice above does not work with a Toyota Prius, something that I need to remember when I'm out running. Stupid, new fangled, electronic cars. Whatever happened to the expression, "Batteries not included"?)

[Adam]

Billy, how did you quote the wrong poster?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Billy, how did you quote the wrong poster?

I swear that I didn't do it on purpose, as I've been known to do in the past, for comic effect. Please don't suspend my Forum privileges. I don't know how it happened. Wait? I bet it's those damn North Koreans trying to hack into the Forum. Don't cave into their demands. Keep the Forum up, and running.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I swear that I didn't do it on purpose, as I've been known to do in the past, for comic effect. Please don't suspend my Forum privileges. I don't know how it happened. Wait? I bet it's those damn North Koreans trying to hack into the Forum. Don't cave into their demands. Keep the Forum up, and running.

How about I just fix it instead.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Archie Lib

I'm a rookie and had this happen for the first time last night in a girls JV game after I called a shooting foul and set up at trail for the free throws after reporting.

Just when we were set, I noticed my partner at lead in the motion of offering the first throw just as the table informed me of the 5 fouls. It seemed like a late notification to me. When that short conversation was over the ball was already in the free thrower's hands about to be shot (the shooter is a quick draw). I could have blown my whistle and held play right then but, being new, I decided to let it play. I acknowledged the table and watched my areas just as the try was made.

Once the try was over I blew my whistle, informed the affected head coach and signaled the table to start the 20 second count for a replacement as I motioned the subs in. I kept my hand up, looking at lead to prevent the throw. If he would have begun to offer the ball I probably would have just whistled again to get his attention. But when both my vet partners looked over at me with those "what the hell is the rookie doing" eyebrows raised I held up the five-finger signal and they nodded and waited for the replacement.

The opposing coach had heard the table notification and asked what was going on, but didn't argue for a T. To be honest, I have no idea if it was the way I sold it or if I was right. It seemed like a common sense application to me, but it may have just been rookie luck, which I don't get much of so I'll take it.

During the post-game when I was getting my pointers and critique from the vets, they mentioned this sequence and said often times the only solution is to know who is in foul trouble beforehand and do some preventative officiating with the table. None of our clocks have individual player fouls listed - only team fouls - so this can be challenging.

Would the best decision be to whistle as soon as I had the notification regardless of where the ball was to prevent an illegal player from being on the floor? My concern as we talked about it afterwards was a scenario were the disqualified player - which I had permitted to remain - had committed a violation on the floor during the first free throw.

Rich

If the shooter has the ball for the first shot, I'd let her shoot and do it just like you did it.