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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:36am
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False Multiple Foul

A1 drives to basket and is fouled by B1 during the act of shooting. While airborn B2 slides over to take a charge but is late and commits a blocking foul. Shot does not go in. Does A1 get 4 throws? Am I reading 4.19.12 correctly?
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:38am
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If you call both fouls, you might be the first person in history to have done so. Good luck in your future officiating endeavors.
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:48am
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You are reading it correctly. Do not call this. I do not care what the interpretation says, do not call this. Not unless you want to have to explain to a coach why you called one foul that likely caused the other. You probably would have to T a coach too. Good luck with that.

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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loners4me View Post
A1 drives to basket and is fouled by B1 during the act of shooting. While airborn B2 slides over to take a charge but is late and commits a blocking foul. Shot does not go in. Does A1 get 4 throws? Am I reading 4.19.12 correctly?
I'm *guessing* you're a new ref. A couple of vets have given you the strongly worded version -- this dad will give you the kinder and gentler version. Have you ever seen that call made at any level of ball? Right - and the reason you've never seen it is that it just isn't called that way. It's unnecessary 99.99999% of the time it technically happens. I suspect if we worked at it we could construct that unique event where the technically correct call would be valuable to a game (which would probably involve a sufficiently deliberate foul that there could be other ways to address,too), but don't even think of going there until you're a seasoned veteran who is consciously making the call for a specific reason.
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 10:14am
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The rule exists but as a mentor of mine reminded us when we were new 20+ years ago a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The day I read that case play in the rule book way back when I had that exact situation come up in a game later the same day. I thought of calling it by the book for maybe a millisecond. After realizing I might end up being the first person on the planet to ever call it that way - and determining where all the exits were in the gym - I reported the initial shooting foul.
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 10:55am
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Sometimes it's not good to be the smartest man in the room. This would be one of those times!
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 10:56am
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I have never called it or seen it called. In fact, I didnt know the rule existed. I like to read case plays on the john and this was my am topic
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 11:04am
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Originally Posted by Burtis449 View Post
Sometimes it's not good to be the smartest man in the room. This would be one of those times!
This is really funny!
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 01:12pm
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Other night, A1 gets hacked on the arm by B1 while elevating, then in attempt to block shot, B2 also hacks A1. When I came out from endline with my call I simply verbalized 'A1 hit him first'. Game kept on moving.
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 02:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burtis449 View Post
Sometimes it's not good to be the smartest man in the room. This would be one of those times!
The smartest person in the room would know this rule but ALSO know it is a bad idea to call it.
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 03:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burtis449 View Post
Sometimes it's not good to be the smartest man in the room.
I run into this problem (above) all the time. It's a curse that I have learned to to live with.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 06:17pm.
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 05:23pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I run into this problem (above) all the time.

Is he wearing a belt ?
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 06:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loners4me View Post
A1 drives to basket and is fouled by B1 during the act of shooting. While airborn B2 slides over to take a charge but is late and commits a blocking foul. Shot does not go in. Does A1 get 4 throws? Am I reading 4.19.12 correctly?

People don't like this case play, so ignore it, even though it is quite clearly written.

People, however, do like 4.19.8c, and while the language is considerably more vague, it must be followed every time.

I have never heard a satisfactory explanation of the difference.
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Old Sat Jan 18, 2014, 08:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
People don't like this case play, so ignore it, even though it is quite clearly written.

People, however, do like 4.19.8c, and while the language is considerably more vague, it must be followed every time.

I have never heard a satisfactory explanation of the difference.
People do not think it is logical. It is not so much that it is clear, but someone if fouled to many does not make since you would have to charge them with a separate foul. And I cannot think of a situation where a fouled player is not altered in such a way that they would be responsible for another foul either. Yes the play is clear, but it does not make real world sense IMO.

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Old Sun Jan 19, 2014, 05:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
People don't like this case play, so ignore it, even though it is quite clearly written.

People, however, do like 4.19.8c, and while the language is considerably more vague, it must be followed every time.

I have never heard a satisfactory explanation of the difference.
Nope, I advocate following them both.
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