10 seconds back court violation?

[Scrapper1]

I would definitely blow this violation if I were the L or C, even in high school game. Of course, here in MA, it's a little easier to justify making that call, because we use a shot clock. So everybody knows exactly when 10 seconds has expired in the possession.

I agree with the people who say you can't call the violation once the TO is granted.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I would definitely blow this violation if I were the L or C, even in high school game. Of course, here in MA, it's a little easier to justify making that call, because we use a shot clock. So everybody knows exactly when 10 seconds has expired in the possession.

I agree with the people who say you can't call the violation once the TO is granted.

================================================== =======

Scrapper,

Wow! Are there other timing violations that you would step in and handle for your partner? For example, would you blow a closely guarded count out from under your partner if the shot clock indicated that the player had been closely guarded for 6 seconds? Throw in at 6 seconds?

I don't mean to ask these questions in an argumentative manner. I guess I'm just trying to understand how important this particular call is to you verses other violations?????

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

================================================== =======

Scrapper,

Wow! Are there other timing violations that you would step in and handle for your partner? For example, would you blow a closely guarded count out from under your partner if the shot clock indicated that the player had been closely guarded for 6 seconds? Throw in at 6 seconds?

I don't mean to ask these questions in an argumentative manner. I guess I'm just trying to understand how important this particular call is to you verses other violations?????

It's not the importance of the call -- it's an obvious, visible error.

I just don't understand why it took so long to use the shot clock instead of a visible count in order to get these violations.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not the importance of the call -- it's an obvious, visible error.

I just don't understand why it took so long to use the shot clock instead of a visible count in order to get these violations.

Table competency.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Rich

I just don't understand why it took so long to use the shot clock instead of a visible count in order to get these violations.

As a practical matter, officials have been using the shot clock instead of their visible count for years. It's just in the rulebook now.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

As a practical matter, officials have been using the shot clock instead of their visible count for years. It's just in the rulebook now.

================================================== =======

Scrapper,

I see your and Rich's point about the shot clock. We don't use shot clock here but it was clear that the game clock was at 1:00 for resumption of play and was at 48.7 when it stopped for a granted T.O.

If no shot clock, but game clock did start properly - at what point, would you have blown this violation for your partner? 49.9? 49.0? Would you treat this situation the same as if you had had a shot clock?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

If no shot clock, but game clock did start properly - at what point, would you have blown this violation for your partner? 49.9? 49.0? Would you treat this situation the same as if you had had a shot clock?

Without a shot clock, I likely would not come in to call the violation at all, because it's unlikely that I checked the game clock when the ball was first possessed inbounds.

However, if the clock was stopped for time-out with 1:00 remaining, I suppose it's possible that I would notice this and have some definite knowledge about when the violation should occur. In that rare case, I would come get it at 0:49. But I think that's extremely unlikely.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Without a shot clock, I likely would not come in to call the violation at all, because it's unlikely that I checked the game clock when the ball was first possessed inbounds.

However, if the clock was stopped for time-out with 1:00 remaining, I suppose it's possible that I would notice this and have some definite knowledge about when the violation should occur. In that rare case, I would come get it at 0:49. But I think that's extremely unlikely.

I could see doing this with a shot clock, depending on who my partner was. No way I'm doing it without one, though, with only a 1 second lag. Until the Fed specifically allows us to use the clock for violations (probably about the time they add the shot clock in CO), I'm not going to step in on this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

================================================== =======

Scrapper,

Wow! Are there other timing violations that you would step in and handle for your partner? For example, would you blow a closely guarded count out from under your partner if the shot clock indicated that the player had been closely guarded for 6 seconds? Throw in at 6 seconds?

I don't mean to ask these questions in an argumentative manner. I guess I'm just trying to understand how important this particular call is to you verses other violations?????

CG count: i'm guessing, no, because whether a player is being closely guarded is part of the judgment here.
Throw in: No, because there is no situation where the shot clock is running during a throw in. Also, you've either got a situation where the clock hasn't started, or there is judgment involved in when the throw in started.

By Fed rule, I'm not getting this until it gets ridiculous (as bob indicates above). Even then, I'm more likely to blow it dead and have a quick chat with my partner, quietly, to make sure he's paying attention.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Are there other timing violations that you would step in and handle for your partner? For example, would you blow a closely guarded count out from under your partner if the shot clock indicated that the player had been closely guarded for 6 seconds? Throw in at 6 seconds?

How would I know when the player first was closely guarded? I'm not officiating my partner's match-ups.

How would I know what the throw-in count is? I guess it would be possible to check the game clock at the start of the throw-in after a made basket, but really, how practical is it for me as the off-official to check the game clock at the start of every throw-in after a basket?

However, when everyone in the gym can see the shot clock at 20 seconds, it's obvious that the violation has occurred, even if my partner's count is a little slow. So -- especially if there is backcourt pressure -- I will get the violation.