10 seconds back court violation?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm wondering why the off-official is watching the clock instead of the players in his area... but that's just me.

If you cant do this and officiate your primary at the same time, you are limiting your ability to spot milfs too.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by APG

It's not an either or situation...you can glance at the clock and not spare the expensive of off-ball officiating. It's not different then glancing at the clock as an off-ball official when a whistle is blown.

It is different because you're looking away from play to do it during a live ball. Unless you're counting to yourself, how do you even glance up at the right time to see the violation?

Either way, you can either be looking at the clock or looking at play, but not both. Every split second spent on the clock is a split second not looking at your primary.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

It is different because you're looking away from play to do it during a live ball. Unless you're counting to yourself, how do you even glance up at the right time to see the violation?

Either way, you can either be looking at the clock or looking at play, but not both. Every split second spent on the clock is a split second not looking at your primary.

I'm stunned that people think their attention has to be *so* undivided.

How do you ever get an illegal screen in your primary when you're on the ball? I mean, every split second you're watching that screen you're not watching the ball handler.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

It is different because you're looking away from play to do it during a live ball. Unless you're counting to yourself, how do you even glance up at the right time to see the violation?

Either way, you can either be looking at the clock or looking at play, but not both. Every split second spent on the clock is a split second not looking at your primary.

There are times when the "competitive matchup" just isn't that "competitive" and you can steal a glance at the clock. (There are also times when you can't look away).

[APG]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

It is different because you're looking away from play to do it during a live ball. Unless you're counting to yourself, how do you even glance up at the right time to see the violation?

Either way, you can either be looking at the clock or looking at play, but not both. Every split second spent on the clock is a split second not looking at your primary.

It's no different in that we should be paying as much attention to the players during a dead ball as we should a live ball. But it doesn't change the fact that (independent of whatever you would call a violation or not here), it's not that difficult (assuming there are two scoreboards, one on each side), to glance up and see the clock...especially if you're an off-ball official.

[MD Longhorn]

Very odd responses.

Let me ask this. My partner is walking up with the dribbler ... and has a count. I have pretty much everyone else until they get closer. I agree that it's certainly possible for me to stop watching my primary and glance over at the clock. But why am I doing this? Are we now advocating that it's part of our responsibility to babysit our partners? Unless the clock just happens to be in my peripheral vision, I see no need to make any undue effort to glance at the clock at this moment.

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Very odd responses.

Let me ask this. My partner is walking up with the dribbler ... and has a count. I have pretty much everyone else until they get closer. I agree that it's certainly possible for me to stop watching my primary and glance over at the clock. But why am I doing this? Are we now advocating that it's part of our responsibility to babysit our partners? Unless the clock just happens to be in my peripheral vision, I see no need to make any undue effort to glance at the clock at this moment.

The responses above about being able to steal a quick glance at the clock all make perfect sense to me, but I feel I'm on the same page you are MD Longhorn. Sure, I could easily steal a glance at the clock, but why would it ever cross my mind as the lead to check the clock once I know it has started, we just inbounded, the trail has the ballhandler coming up the court, and I'm going to verify my trails 10 sec call?? I'm going to trust he can handle that one.

I see what everyones saying, it is certianly more than possible to do this, my view point is why would you...?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Very odd responses.

Let me ask this. My partner is walking up with the dribbler ... and has a count. I have pretty much everyone else until they get closer. I agree that it's certainly possible for me to stop watching my primary and glance over at the clock. But why am I doing this? Are we now advocating that it's part of our responsibility to babysit our partners? Unless the clock just happens to be in my peripheral vision, I see no need to make any undue effort to glance at the clock at this moment.

I think most clocks are on the walls behind (and to the side of) each basket. So, if you're L, on the endline, the clock is usually / often in your line of sight -- it's just "beyond" where you're usually focused.

And, frequently, the players in the FC aren't really doing anything in terms of denying the ball / setting screens until the ball gets to the FC.

So, you have time to glance at the clock.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm stunned that people think their attention has to be *so* undivided.

How do you ever get an illegal screen in your primary when you're on the ball? I mean, every split second you're watching that screen you're not watching the ball handler.

There's a difference between seeing something in your primary with your peripheral vision and refocusing your eyes from 10-20 feet range to the 80+ feet range to look away from your primary.

You're abandoning your primary to fish in your partner's pond.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think most clocks are on the walls behind (and to the side of) each basket. So, if you're L, on the endline, the clock is usually / often in your line of sight -- it's just "beyond" where you're usually focused.

And, frequently, the players in the FC aren't really doing anything in terms of denying the ball / setting screens until the ball gets to the FC.

So, you have time to glance at the clock.

Maybe it's different in 3 man, but when 10 seconds is a possibility it usually means I'm pretty busy watching off ball for screens and holds as the FC players are desperately trying to get open for a pass. I'm also rarely on the endline in this situation.

[Raymond]

Most every game I work, there is a clock at both ends of the gym. Not very hard to see the clock and my primary at the same time.

The above is a just a statement of fact. Not indicative of what I would or wouldn't in the various situations being discussed.

[deecee]

I wonder if you guys know how misleading your peripheral vision can actually be? If as an official you *only* know whats going on in your primary at all times that must be very limiting IMO. Plus there are times that the clock isnt started, or the shot clock may be reset by mistake, and having an excuse that, "oh that's my partners primary" just doesn't cut it.

[APG]

I'm not necessarily advocating calling a violation on this play as the off official. I'm only arguing the point that an off-official wouldn't be able to look at this clock in this situation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by APG

I'm not necessarily advocating calling a violation on this play as the off official. I'm only arguing the point that an off-official wouldn't be able to look at this clock in this situation.

Ditto.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by APG

I'm not necessarily advocating calling a violation on this play as the off official. I'm only arguing the point that an off-official wouldn't be able to look at this clock in this situation.

I'm only arguing that an off-official can't look at the clock in a sufficient manner to call a violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm only arguing that an off-official can't look at the clock in a sufficient manner to call a violation.

A good off-official will check the clock after a made basket or a whistle. Next level officiating is clock-awareness.