Missouri State/Wichita State video requests

[BryanV21]

#1 - The offensive player has as much right to that spot as the defender. Unless the defender got their first, and the fact he's still moving laterally tells me he didn't, I have a block.

#2 - The defender got to the spot before the shooter started "going up"... charge.

#3 - Same as #2.

As for the OOB, I can't tell for sure one way or the other. I can't blame the ref for his call, as it looks like it was knocked out. On the other hand, the offensive player looks like he may have just lost control.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

#1 - The offensive player has as much right to that spot as the defender. Unless the defender got their first, and the fact he's still moving laterally tells me he didn't, I have a block.

#2 - The defender got to the spot before the shooter started "going up"... charge.

#3 - Same as #2.

As for the OOB, I can't tell for sure one way or the other. I can't blame the ref for his call, as it looks like it was knocked out. On the other hand, the offensive player looks like he may have just lost control.

Note also in Play 1 that he didn't call a block, he called a hand heck and used the "arm bar" signal. I really don't think the defender arm barred him, but you could argue for a block.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Note also in Play 1 that he didn't call a block, he called a hand heck and used the "arm bar" signal. I really don't think the defender arm barred him, but you could argue for a block.

I did see the arm bar signal, but didn't give it any thought. I didn't see anything like that, either.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Note also in Play 1 that he didn't call a block, he called a hand heck and used the "arm bar" signal. I really don't think the defender arm barred him, but you could argue for a block.

It looks like he got halfway to a PC signal (hand behind head) but changed his mind and an "armbar" signal was easier than a block signal. Should have stuck with his initial instinct in my opinion as this looked like a PC foul to me.

[JRutledge]

I see three missed block calls. All of those plays were PC fouls IMO. And they were not that hard IMO either.

And the OOB play was missed too, but that was understandable IMO. He probably saw it late and assumed and gave it to the wrong team. That happens, but probably shouldn't.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I see three missed block calls. All of those plays were PC fouls IMO. And they were not that hard IMO either.

And the OOB play was missed too, but that was understandable IMO. He probably saw it late and assumed and gave it to the wrong team. That happens, but probably shouldn't.

Peace

Agree....on all counts.

[zm1283]

For full disclosure, I was at the game and was cheering for Missouri State. I wanted to see video of these because I thought one official really struggled in the second half of the game.

Someone posted on Facebook that the last 7 minutes of clock time took almost 40 minutes in real time. Another reason I don't like all of the monitor reviews.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I see three missed block calls. All of those plays were PC fouls IMO. And they were not that hard IMO either.

And the OOB play was missed too, but that was understandable IMO. He probably saw it late and assumed and gave it to the wrong team. That happens, but probably shouldn't.

Peace

Not saying you're wrong.. not at all. But I'm curious as to your explanation as to why it's a charging call in play #1.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Not saying you're wrong.. not at all. But I'm curious as to your explanation as to why it's a charging call in play #1.

The defender has LGP, back away and the dribble goes into him and seems to push off. All the defender did was prepare for the contact. His arm was there to if anything protect his midsection. I do not see how the official put this on the defender? That was the easiest call IMO. There was not issue with "upward motion" or airborne shooter at play. That was a PC foul last year too.

Then again, we had the benefit of tape.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The defender has LGP, back away and the dribble goes into him and seems to push off. All the defender did was prepare for the contact. His arm was there to if anything protect his midsection. I do not see how the official put this on the defender? That was the easiest call IMO. There was not issue with "upward motion" or airborne shooter at play. That was a PC foul last year too.

Then again, we had the benefit of tape.

Peace

LGP is obtained when the defender gets both feet down at the spot first. Personally, I don't see that here, as the defender is still moving towards the spot where contact is made when hit. It's close, though, so I wouldn't get on another official for calling a charge, but I don't see where this is so easy.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

LGP is obtained when the defender gets both feet down at the spot first. Personally, I don't see that here, as the defender is still moving towards the spot where contact is made when hit. It's close, though, so I wouldn't get on another official for calling a charge, but I don't see where this is so easy.

Umm, close. Here are the first three requirements for establishing LGP on someone with the ball:

a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a legal guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.

And here is one of the criteria for maintaining LGP...

(the guard) may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position provided such a move is not toward the opponent when contact occurs;

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Umm, close. Here are the first three requirements for establishing LGP on someone with the ball:

a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a legal guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.

And here is one of the criteria for maintaining LGP...

(the guard) may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position provided such a move is not toward the opponent when contact occurs;

Section 23 Art. 1 of the 2013-2014 NFHS Rule Book says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting the opponent". This part comes before the guidelines you quote.

IMO, the defender in Play #1 does not get to the spot first and before contact is made. He has to have both feet on the playing court at the spot of the foul, and be the first at the spot, to satisfy both parts of legally guarding an opponent plus obtaining legal guarding position.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

LGP is obtained when the defender gets both feet down at the spot first. Personally, I don't see that here, as the defender is still moving towards the spot where contact is made when hit. It's close, though, so I wouldn't get on another official for calling a charge, but I don't see where this is so easy.

Incorrect. You may want to review the definitions of LGP. Both feet down and being at the spot don't have to be at the same time. The defender had LGP with both feet down, in the path, and facing the dribbler when they were 10 feet apart. Maintaining LGP does not have any requirement on the feet...only that the defender not be moving toward the opponent at the time of contact....he was moving away.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Incorrect. You may want to review the definitions of LGP. Both feet down and being at the spot don't have to be at the same time. The defender had LGP with both feet down, in the path, and facing the dribbler when they were 10 feet apart. Maintaining LGP does not have any requirement on the feet...only that the defender not be moving toward the opponent at the time of contact....he was moving away.

You're completely ignoring the part that says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent". The defender in this case does not satisfy that part, so whether or not he had LGP (which is discussed after that quote) doesn't matter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

LGP is obtained when the defender gets both feet down at the spot first. Personally, I don't see that here, as the defender is still moving towards the spot where contact is made when hit. It's close, though, so I wouldn't get on another official for calling a charge, but I don't see where this is so easy.

I do not need to belabor the point. You really need to learn what LGP is and what it is to maintain LGP.

The defender never moved toward the ball handler.

Peace